Speaker 1 00:00:30 Today on super normal eyes, we have Nathan, who is a many times experiencer of Shadow people, has seen indigenous entities, and we talk around what he thinks this is all about. In this episode, we cover angels, Banes, protective Prayer, and a whole lot more. Whilst I also share some related stories and ideas in the mix in what is I believe is a very interesting talk, there's a trigger warning on this one. Uh, we have one salty word or two, and themes related to suicide and depression are discussed. If you like the show, please share the show and rate it five stars on your favorite podcast app. And sharing the show means that others get to have their experiences normalized on with the show.
Speaker 2 00:01:11 We have on the show today. Nathan, who has had many experiences with shadow people now. Nathan. Hello, <laugh>. So what is a shadow person? Um, basically it's, it's what it is. What it's what it sounds like it's, uh, a humanoid, um, patch of darkness that seems to move around. Um, I think there are a lot of other definitions of them, like people have seem to have in the, in the paranormal community, there seems to be a lot of definitions of what a shadow person is and where they can appear and in what forms and in what circumstances. But for me, they always appear in this sort of liminal, um, consciousness space between sleep and waking, um, usually in my bedroom, which is really horrifying. Um, and yeah, that's, that's what they, so that's what they appear like. But they also have this, um, associated field of terror that, uh, comes with them. And I don't know exactly where that comes from or why, but, um, that's what they are. They're, they're scary, dark shadowy figures. Well, that's quite, quite a description. And also, um, quite something that would probably put the chills in most people. Now obviously this is, this is had a genesis for you. It started probably, uh,
Speaker 1 00:02:37 Some time in life
Speaker 2 00:02:38 Window that happened. And how did it happen and where were you? How old were you? What was going on in
Speaker 1 00:02:44 Your life at the time?
Speaker 2 00:02:45 Yeah, this actually started with my mom, so, okay. When I was, when I was a little kid, um, at least three times that I know of, she woke up the entire house screaming that there was someone in her bedroom. Right. That would've been shocking. Yeah, it was. As a little kid it was really scary. But, um, dad was always there as the calm one to calm everything down and turn all the lights on and check behind the curtains and whatnot. But, um, that was, it was never really talked about about why that happened or what it was. It was just passed off as a bad dream or it was something like that. Um, but then we found out that I, I noticed the pattern of the next day. We'd always find out that someone mom knew, or someone in the connected to our family in some way had died.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 Right. Each of those three times it happened, and then the next day we found out someone had died. And again, it was, it was never really talked about in the family. That was just a coincidence. And how strange is that? And moving on, we don't talk about it. But that's, that's kind of where it started. Right. Okay. Now I've gotta ask you, have you actually spoken to your mother about these experiences that she had way back when since Not really. Like, I, I've tried to ask questions when I was a little kid, like, what was that? What was going on? But, um, because it scared her so much, she didn't really wanna talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's probably the most mystical one that's stretching the word a little bit in the family, um, in that way. So if anyone was gonna see, see that sort of thing apart from me, it would've been her.
Speaker 2 00:04:23 But, um, yeah, again, it was something that you, you didn't talk about because it was a scary dream and it wasn't real, and we just move on. Right. How old were you at the time when this was happening? I would've been between, cuz it wasn't very frequent. It would've been between about six and maybe 14, 15. Right, right. Okay. And, um, okay, so going back to that age, in your mind, did, did you have any, any idea yourself? What was going on? Did you actually just come up with any story that you told yourself that made sense of that for you? My, my theory was that they were the people visiting her. So the people who were dying were coming to visit mom to say goodbye or let her know or something. Okay. So that was really comforting for me. Um, but I couldn't understand why she was so scared about them.
Speaker 2 00:05:19 I was always, I was, part of me was a little bit angry that she was so scared because I was like, why don't you just talk to them like they're your family or your friends and they're coming to say goodbye and, and you are just screaming and thrashing around and turning all the lights on and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, right, right. When you could actually be interacting with this amazing thing. But, um, yeah, that was before I actually experienced them myself. Right. Um, and that has a whole different dimension to, it's not just a friendly visitor, it's, it has this associated terror that comes with it that's really quite overwhelming. Right, right. Okay. So, wow. Um, so considering that, what, when this started happening for you, um, is this around about the age of 14 or did it start earlier for yourself? So the first time I saw them was actually after I'd moved out of home.
Speaker 2 00:06:12 So I was in my early twenties, maybe 21, 22. Right. Um, and I'd moved out of home and I was living in a different house and then the, it just sort of started to happen out of nowhere. Right. Um, I don't have a specific, the only thing I can link to it is not being in the same house as my mother. So as another person who could see them or had visits from them, I was no longer in that sort of zone. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So then the next available option was for them to come to me. Right. And, and then how did they come to you and when did they come to you? Um, I mean, it ran about what age was that for you? What was going on on your life that time? Yeah, I dunno that there was anything specific going on in my life that I, I can't really think of anything.
Speaker 2 00:07:03 It was just sort of university and starting my new job and all that sort of thing. Right. But, um, at the start, the first one, the first one I ever saw, I was just lying in bed, um, sort of asleep, sort of awake trying to go to sleep. And I just suddenly realized that there was a person standing in the doorway of my bedroom. Right. And I couldn't see anything other than the black silhouette of this sort of human oage shape, shape. But I was just terrified. And it was, it was the terror of there being a stranger in my house. And, and that's really on it on the human level of I'm in danger on a physical level because there's some person who's got into my house at nighttime and is watching me. But then there's also this non-ordinary sort of very threatening terror.
Speaker 2 00:07:50 Like goes, it feels like it goes beyond that that is associated with them. And this one just, it didn't do anything. It didn't move or anything, it just there. And I wanna say that it was watching me, but I have no way of telling that because I couldn't, you can't see any features or I couldn't see any features on it. Right. But that's what it was. It was just standing there in the doorway and I was so afraid of it. Yeah. And I've tried to part, a few of them started out that way and I tried to pass them off as like sleep paralysis. Um, because that's a classic sort of thing. You, you're lying in bed, you can't move, you're terrified and you feel like there's something in the room. Um, but there was only a few that I felt actually truly paralyzed by it.
Speaker 2 00:08:35 Like, I couldn't physically move my body. For most of them, I've actually known that I can move, but I, I'd be just too afraid to move because I don't wanna attract attention. I don't wanna let them know that I'm awake or that I know that they're there because it just feels like that would increase the danger. So it's always a case of stay as still as possible. Don't move, pretend you're asleep, and hope they just sort of go away. Um, on a couple occasions, I actually did move cuz I was, the way I was lying when they appeared was not ideal to have to deal with a, a person, you know, coming at you. So I've just sort of gradually, slowly moved around to try and get into a more defensive position. But, um, that's why I haven't, I, I don't find them the same as the sleep paralysis, the classical sleep paralysis, um, event because I can move if I choose to, but I'm so afraid that I don't want to, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:09:31 Oh, it makes complete sense. I, you are talking about this right now has reminded me of when I went through an experience as a, a young-ish child. And, uh, I used to think of it as, as well, I didn't name any words for it, but I thought it was like a spirit or something that would attack me. And, um, if I knew that if I moved that, that it's, that was it. I was done for, so there was terror involved in it as well. So this has actually re reminded me of this experience for myself as well. Um, but I don't remember seeing anything, but I just felt the presence of it. Um, and almost at a time I do remember, um, that I also had the ability to move. And I also remember them coming into the room and I could feel, cause for my, for me it was a presence. I could feel a presence. I never saw anything, but I felt it. And, uh, it would come right up on me. And I remember I could even feel all of my hairs prickling on my body going, oh God, it's so <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:10:37 Yeah, that's exactly it. You feel them and I can also see them. It's just, yeah. And if, and if you move, you know, that's it. They're gonna, they're gonna get you whatever get you means. Yeah. So, um, yeah. No, I completely understand. And, and, um, for you, when, when you were experiencing it too, did, did you feel that, cuz I know, you know, when youre actually in the dark and there's a presence nearby and it, you can feel like it's taking space. Yep. Right. That's what it felt like for me. And that's your experience as well. Yeah, it was definitely a thing was there, um, and it, and it wasn't just a, a shadow or just a a two dimensional shape. It was a, an actual, I wouldn't say physical thing, but I'm, I'm not even sure if that's the right word, but there was a thing there that wasn't just, um, a shape or a shadow.
Speaker 2 00:11:32 Mm. Yeah. I, I knew for myself with my experiences of it, it was like, um, I knew these things were doing this because they actually got something out of it. That's, that's what it felt like to me. It's like they kept on coming because they enjoyed drinking My fear. That's, that's the only way I could put it. Um, and as a kid, kid I knew that, that that was happening, but I didn't know how to stop it for a really long time. For me, this is, that was, that was my experience. So you've had quite a few of these experiences as well. Um, uh, is there any others that you'd like to describe that happened to you? Yeah, well, I mean, it's sort of gone through a progression for me. And it started, like, I definitely agree that they're there for something and it seems to be fear.
Speaker 2 00:12:17 But, um, after the first few where they just stood at the doorway, then they started to come into the bedroom and walk around. Um, and that's where my experience matches what little, I know of what mum experienced as well. So apparently she, um, would wake up and she had one person standing in the doorway. Then the next one was standing at the end of the bed and the third one was standing right next to her in the bedroom, next to the bed. And so that's where, that's why I know that she and I experienced the same thing because she did give out that much when I talked to her. But that was sort of the limit. Um, so yeah, after that they, they have walked around the room, they have come up close. And then one of the scariest ones for me, speaking of them, you know, knowing that if you move, they're gonna get you.
Speaker 2 00:13:05 They, um, I, I sort of woke up and it was standing at the foot of my bed and, um, that one felt really malevolent, like more than the others. I could tell that there was something slightly different about that one that was just really nasty. And it just stood there watching me for the longest time and then all of a sudden it just jumped at me, like launched itself over the edge of the bed, um, with its arms out as if it was gonna grab me. And at that point, it's the only time I've done it. But I actually started physically screaming because I was just so scared and startled at it. Um, that was a little bit unfortunate because my sister, who I was living with at the same time, chose that moment to creep back in after partying all night. So she opened the front door of the apartment to have start screaming bloody murder. Oh no. Oh, it's actually probably good. She was there. She might have actually broke the spell. So it's interesting that she opened the door as the thing jumped, so, wow. Yeah. I dunno what sort of connection to make there, but, um, she wasn't impressed with with that <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:14:08 Did you, did you talk to her at the time about these things? Yeah, no, I told her what I'd experience, I had to explain what I'd experienced then. Right. Yeah. Well she, she'd also known that mom had, had them, had experienced them. And I think she just assumed it was a bad dream. Okay. Um, yeah, that was, that was as far as it went for her. Like you had a bad dream. She's never, she's never experienced anything like it. Not as far as I know. She's okay. She's pretty, um, pretty practical and down to earth with all that sort of thing and never really explored it. Okay. But, um, yeah, I mean I, I'd scream so loud and so hard that I'd actually hurt my throat with that one cuz it was just that terrifying. So <laugh>. Oh yeah. I had to really explain to her what was going on because Yeah. It really upset her hearing that from her brother. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It would be very startling. Especially if you've been out partying, so Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:15:05 Right, right. Okay. Yeah. So, um, over time has this experience for you changed? Does it happen often? Do you still have these experiences? Yeah, I don't have them as much anymore, but there was a period there, um, where I was living in a, a large apartment building with my sister where they were relatively frequent. Oh, well, I'd have three or four a year. Um, and that was frequent for me. Um, and from that point, like the shadow figures started to become more capal and actually interacting with me, which was, which is possibly even worse. So, um, I had one how, how, how worse, well, <laugh> I had one walk up to the side of the bed. Cause I, I tend to lie on my side when I'm sleeping. And so I was lying there and I had one, I realized it was coming into the room and it walked right up to the side of the bed and then crouched down so that its face was a couple of inches away from mine.
Speaker 2 00:16:01 And it was just stopped there looking at me. And I, like, I couldn't see any eyes or anything, but it was just, it was right there. And I, it was just the most horrifying. It's, that's like the jumping one was the, the jump scare in the horror movie. This one was just that creeping horror of having something that horrifying that close to you. Wow. And not wanting to actually move or do anything in case it, it did something. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how it's like, it's like a continu with this experience. It's like a continuous threat, but nothing really happens. Yeah. They sort of, they have that, that thing where they're, they're threatening but they don't seem to follow through. Is there what the threat could be? Okay. So that makes you ask a question. Okay. So if this is a malevolent spirit that really would love to do something, is it under a rule or a can?
Speaker 2 00:16:57 That's a really interesting point. Yeah. I've never thought of that. Yeah, because they do, they can interact physically with the physical world as well. So I've had one Okay. Um, where, and they don't just come at night. It was just the other thing that really freaked me out. So, um, the first one where I actually felt the physical interaction of it was, um, I was having a nap one afternoon on the weekend and the bed I was in had a window behind the headboard and this shadow figure climbed in through the window and then crawled down the bed beside me down the length of the bed. And I could feel the mattress dipping as its feet and hands pressed into it. And my body was sort of moving in time in line with that sort of, um, depression into the mattress as it far out.
Speaker 2 00:17:45 Yeah. But that's, but the thing there is, it didn't ever touch me. So it was interacting with the physical world, it was about as close to me as it possibly get without actually touching me. But it didn't touch me. It was just this, this sort of hovering threat of this is what I could do, but I'm not doing it far out. It makes me think they're bound to a law or, or contracted to a law or something that they can't break. They would obviously, I mean, it does sound like they, like, from my experience, it felt like if I did the wrong thing, they were gonna drain me of everything of my soul in a blink. That's how it felt for me. Yeah. I was absolutely terrified. Absolutely terrified. And, um, that was ongoing for many, many years. So that puzzles me, like, it's like, why, why, why don't they do something?
Speaker 2 00:18:40 I I actually wonder if it's because it's scarier if they don't, because it leaves it up to your imagination, which is always gonna be a thousand times scarier for you than whatever actual realized threat is happens. Mm. Like it's that classic storytelling thing. It's what you don't show that's always the scariest for the person who's following along the story. Yeah. That's why I think it, it may also be a method of enhancing the fear. Like they've honed their art of generating this fear down to the finest level so they can feed on it. And they know that if they, if they ever follow through on something, it breaks that tension of you don't know what's actually gonna happen. Yes. That makes sense. That makes sense. I really wish it was they were bound by something because that sounds a lot safer <laugh> rather than they just don't want to, right.
Speaker 2 00:19:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't wanna break the source. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. Cause that makes me think back to a time when, um, I was, I was, I kept on having these dreams and they were really horrible dreams about my father dying. He was already dead, you know, he was already passed on and, um, I'd have this dream where he was really upset with me and you know, and crying and all this sort of stuff. And I just felt, it made me feel so horrible and bad and it happened like literally three nights in a row and wake up like literally crying, you know, with wet, with a wet face and everything over and over. And I, and I had that sort of feeling like, oh, something's going on here. There's a spirit that's just having to go. And I, you know, went into it intuitively and, and, and had a look at it and I realized, okay, so this is a spirit that's in another dimension that's found some of my memories and is working me over to get a drink.
Speaker 2 00:20:33 And in it mention it's like, oh, this is some sort of source of energy and this is how you turn this tur and what does I turn this tur, there's water. Cool. Nice. I love a drink. Right. That's what I think think is might be happening too with these guys or things I shouldn't say guys, I dunno. They are. Um, and in doing so, you know, they're getting a drink of our energy and they seem to like the fear. So if that, if that is the case, then, you know, there's, there's gotta be ways to, uh, help them to understand that it's not helpful. But if it isn't, because do they even, I'm wondering do they even know what they're doing? I mean, are they aware of what they're generating? Is, is there, I mean, what that does beg the question of, of like moral intent then too.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 Yeah. You know, cause what if it, like, in their, on their edge, their end of the, of the woods, it's like, no, no, this is normal. Not just hunting. Yeah. I mean, you can't tell a, a lion that eating gazelle's is bad because it's That's right. Gazelle. It needs, it needs gazelle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So are they just being what they are? Yeah. See, I'm not sure because in the, in the moments of fear when they're there, it feels very intentional. Like it feels like they know what they're doing and they're standing where they are and doing what they are they're doing in order to get the most fear out of you. Right. But I don't know if that's just a product of my fear, like my imagination populating them with, you know, maybe these are just curious beings that are looking around and not realizing what's going on.
Speaker 2 00:22:13 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. Well I know when, when with the ones that were causing the dreams that I was having, I ended up figuring out a way to have a chat with them. And, um, upon having a chat with them, I said, can you go somewhere else? I really want to just sleep <laugh>. And they never came back. It was like, you know, they were fine. They were like, oh yeah, we didn't even know we were hurting somebody. Sorry. <laugh>. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. See, I mean, I've tried like magical warding of the place and setting up energetic boundaries and, and whatnot. And that doesn't seem to keep them out at all. They'll just get, they'll just get through after a while. It might slow them down for a little while, but they'll just either appear inside it or just walk straight through it. I'm not sure which one.
Speaker 2 00:22:58 Um, but I do, I have found that, um, prayer actually gets rid of them. Prayer. Yeah. What sort of prayer, what type of prayers? Um, in the moment, it's whatever I can remember and probably not sensible or focused, but, um, I've used, I was like used the, the child's prayer of Please don't hurt me. Please don't hurt me, please go away. And that sort of thing in the moment of panic. Yeah. But also, you know, hail Mary, the Lord's Prayer, all those, it doesn't seem to matter which one it is. Yeah. But it does work. Um, and I've also had a bit of luck with, um, talking to them, just asking them sizing with them. Yeah. Um, well, they don't really answer. They, you know, I've, I've tried, you know, what do you want? What are you doing? Who are you, you? And they just sort of seem to hesitate, like, I'm not following the script or something. Oh, yeah. Okay. So you're not being completely fearful and Yeah. Yeah. And they just sort of, at that moment they sort of stop and you can feel the field of fear just sort of starting to crack a little bit and then they vanish. Interesting. Yeah. I try not to be offended like that. I'm, I'm that, you know, socially awkward that these interdimensional horrors are just like, oh, I'm not talking to you, <laugh>, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:24:19 But it's, it's one of those, it's, it's a weird thing. And I don't know if it's, um, like it's you, it's me. Yeah. <laugh>, I answer your shit. I'm sorry, <laugh>. Oh wow. That's cool. I dunno if it's like, if it's because you are like assigning them or recognizing their personhood, if that's what does it, or if it's Oh, oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. You're actually giving them agency and then they're like, oh fuck, I don't need that. I'm trying to do something <laugh>. Yeah. Or is it, is it like the human language facilities that's disrupting the consciousness field that they appear in? Like, because you're engaging that, because when you're in that moment of fear, you're not moving, you're not speaking, you're not making a sound, which is one of the key things of don't, don't draw attention to yourself is be quiet and as soon as you make a noise or engage that language, you're sort of disrupting that.
Speaker 2 00:25:18 I mean, that's like a, it could be way, a way of them actually focusing in Yeah. But then I'm also wondering if it's, um, like just the sounds, uh, the sounds themselves that are a problem. And if there are specific ones, because the question I found that disrupts them the most is, who are you not any of the others. Like, what are you, what are you doing? What do you want? It's who are you? Whoa. And that's the one that phases them out. And I also noticed, um, that in the Lord's prayers, it also has who are in heaven, who are in heaven, who are, again, yes. I don't know if it's that like I have all these sort of theories and things that I've tried, but nothing sort of matches up. You're never gonna get a clear answer because I don't think you can in this physical dimension.
Speaker 2 00:26:04 Right, right. Because that they don't communicate the same way as we do when it comes to language, probably. Yeah. And it's that, um, that language twisting, twisting thing where the, um, if you speak in concrete, precise terms to a spirit, it breaks, breaks the communication or breaks the spirit. But if you use metaphor, then the spirits can understand. Okay. But so you have to find ways. If you're communicating with spirits, you have to find ways of talking around the thing that you actually wanna say. Yes. Otherwise you'll break it in the spirit world. Right. I don't like hard rationalizing. Yeah. So I don't, yeah. I'm not sure if that's a thing, but I mean, if anyone else is experiencing this, try something like that and see what happens. It's, yeah. It's as effective as I've got so far. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've had some trouble with spirits and, and, and, uh, pop in the room sometimes when you're trying to sleep.
Speaker 2 00:27:04 And, and one of the things that I've found with prayer is, I mean, I usually don't remember the long prayers, so I just say something simple like, you know, the blood of Christ covers me. Yeah. You know, or even just, you know, Mary's name Mary, Mary, Mary, we know how powerful Mary is. Right? Yeah. And a lot of times that just scares 'em off, you know? So I don't know. Yeah. And see, I don't know if it's the language or the sound or the entity attached to those significations. Yeah, that's right. All of them at once. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. The words are like sonic weapons in different dimensions. It's like they're, they're probably just these, you know, innocent people walking around going, oh, what's over here? And causing us this terrible fear. And then we That's right. Come back with these horrible sonic booms or something. <laugh>. Yeah. We've walked into McDonald's, they've walked into a cosmic McDonald's and like, oh, I'm gonna have that. You want that burger there? And they're about to pay, and then the person behind the counter, you at them. Yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:28:04 Very Look it out. <laugh>. Oh, um, okay. So this has happened to you not only at nighttime, but during the day. Yeah. So it seems to be associated with that consciousness level of in between sleeping and waking. Um, and it doesn't matter what time of day it is, but they always appear as the dark shapes, no matter how much light there is or isn't in the room. So it can be a full sunny day outside. And I'll still see the dark shadow at the same intensity as I would see it in a fully pitched dark room. Right. Yeah. It's strange. And even in a question, in a, even in a pitch dark room, yeah. You can still see them as a darker shadow even though there's no light. So that makes me ask the question are, are they actually a shadow or what, what are we looking, because do you see things through them?
Speaker 2 00:29:02 Well, I didn't at first. And then after I started talking to them, they started getting a bit clearer and more defined. So instead of this mostly amorphous human ish shape, I started to see more defined figures. And then details like clothing. Like I could tell if one was wearing a dress or robe or something as opposed to trousers. Um, and then after that I could start to see gender. And then there was one that I knew was a man with a beard, and I could actually see the full beard around his face, even though it was a dark shadow with no sort of other features. Um, yeah, it was really, really weird.
Speaker 2 00:29:43 And it's interesting that it progresses in this way. Like it started out with a, a shape in a doorway that was really amorphous. And then by the end of it, I was listening to them talk, but, um, <laugh>, what, what were they saying? <laugh>? Well, that's the thing. I, there, there was, there were two of them in the room. So I've, I've occasionally had more than one, which is even worse. Um, and this one, this particular case or instance, there was a male, male one leaning over in the corner sort of opposite me and a female one sitting next to my head essentially. And they were discussing, I can't remember the exact words, but they were discussing whether or not I was ready for something and I don't know what it was, which is annoying God, really terrifying initiating team what's going on. Yeah. Um, but the, the female one thought I was ready and the male, the male one thought I wasn't. And they were arguing about that. And then as soon as they realized I was awake, they just sort of went and disappeared. Like as in, oh shit, he's listening. God, did you feel like the quiz arts ack <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:30:53 Wow. That would've been very surreal. Yeah. It's, was that a daytime one or a nighttime one, or, that was a nighttime one. Yeah. Right. But that they just, it, it comes with that level of fear, so you can't really process too much of what's going on because you're so afraid of them. But that's right. That's, that's what I could grab from, from that event visits. Yeah, that's right. Cause cause the fear is so strong too. It actually does seem to erase memory at the same time. So I, I know that for myself, so it's like, wow, I didn't capture, I just got that little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can joke about it afterwards, like, like this, oh, of course. Like every single one has that level of terror of there is something dangerous in my bedroom right now. And I, I can't let them know that I know that they're there.
Speaker 2 00:31:39 Right. So now I'm looking a bit further on here into, um, some of the notes that you sent me. Um, and okay, so you've got the ban connection. What does that mean to you? That was something that I put together because my mother had the, the connection with the, like the Oman of death. So she would see them and then someone she knew or was connected with the family would die the next day, or we'd hear about the death the next day. Right. And so the Banshee legend is that, um, the spirit e cloaked and, uh, the spirit will be scream, heard, screaming, um, the, the night before someone is due to die in a family, and they're supposed to be attached to a specific family. So the Banshee is attached to a specific family. Anytime someone in that family's gonna die, someone will hear them screaming, um, hear the banty screaming at night.
Speaker 2 00:32:31 Yeah. So that, that sort of matched up with what mum was, was, um, hearing. And then I, and it made me wonder whether the, the screaming that people would hear and attached to that, that story of the Banshee was actually the ban itself or the result of the Banshee appearing to someone in this way. Interesting. Yes. So, you know, the ban, she shows up in someone's bedroom at night in this horrible shadow form, and the person starts screaming and then someone is dead the next day mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so what other people would hear is ban screaming death, and then that's where the, the story came from. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So like, I wondered about that, but I don't have the clear connection to that sort of death omen. But, um, the only thing I can think of is that for me, it only happens, it happens more when I live in buildings with other people.
Speaker 2 00:33:22 Yeah. So it's never happened when I've lived by myself in a detached house. Yeah. And it never happened when I lived in a detached townhouse with just my sister, so one other person in the house with me. It happened the most when I lived in a really big apartment building where there were lots of other people. So I'm wondering if instead of the banshee being attached to a specific family, it's attached to the people living in a, in a building. And so whether I was picking up on Banshee death os for other people in that building, and that's why it was happening to me more often in the more populated departments than in other ones. Yes. Certainly possible. That makes sense. Yeah. I mean that's, that's, it might be a bit of a stretch, but, um, with these sorts of things, I try to explore every avenue and see if I can come up with something that, that matches what I'm experiencing.
Speaker 2 00:34:18 Of course we can understand it and Yeah, yeah. And explain it. Yeah. And just sort of have it in the back of your mind in case more evidence comes up that lends you one way or the other. Yeah. Yeah. But of course, you can't really go around to all your neighboring apartment, uh, neighbors and apartments and go, Hey, do you know anyone that's died today? <laugh>? No. You can't really verify. No, you can't verify it. But it might be one of those random events where you run into somebody and they say, oh, you say how you doing? Just wait for it. And they Oh, not so good. Something's happened. So, um, yeah, just by chance it might come out Yeah. In time. It's one of those random sort of possible theories of what might be connected to these things. Of course. Yeah. Right. Okay. And so you had some other theories around that, um, this experience too, and, and you think it might have been also a classic, um, alien abduction experiment sort of possibility.
Speaker 2 00:35:13 Do you still feel that? Yeah. See, I never really like that opinion, like that theory, but doing research online, which is always fun for these sorts of things, it, it seems to turn up a lot of stuff with the alien experimenters coming into someone's room and performing experiments on them, um, at nighttime. Yes. And they do, a lot of the stories do have a lot of matches with that, the shadowy indistinct figures, the fear, um, the way they move around and that sort of thing. So I sort of, I've kept that in the back of my mind as a possibility, but other than saying it doesn't feel true to me, I don't really have any evidence outside of that. It's just, yeah. It's just another, it's another possibility that I just sort of keep there and go, maybe it's this, wait for more evidence or anything like that.
Speaker 2 00:36:03 Yeah. Yeah. I had a, um, uh, I had a client way back when, when I was doing, um, hypnosis with people to help them for issues. And he explained that his family was going through nightly abductions by mantis aliens Yeah. To put it plainly and the same, pretty much the same sort of story. These beings would turn up every single night, abduct them from their, their rooms and do strange experiments upon all of his family in his house. And they couldn't stop it. And he came to me to see if we could stop it. And, uh, at that stage, I wasn't, I I wasn't too aware of the mans aliens and I was, uh, uh, I hadn't crossed over into, um, any, uh, alternate realities where actually experienced that. And, um, I wasn't sure what to do. And, uh, I tried, I tried some hypnosis with him and, uh, we did some work, but, um, he didn't seem too happy with it.
Speaker 2 00:37:11 But, um, it, he did explain at the time that when he, um, experienced these, these mantas aliens, it was similar to these experiences of both you and I've experienced, where it's, something comes in and it's absolutely like, um, soul scathing terrifying. Yeah. And, uh, it just, it was ongoing and never stopped. That's interesting because it sort of ties, like it linked, there's a tenuous link there with another theory that I've heard, which is that these sorts of experiences are the start of an out of body experience. Oh, yeah. So the idea is that you're, you're sort of, you're coming out of your body at this, at the point that this happens. So you're half in your body and half outta of your body, and the part of you that's in your body doesn't have enough consciousness to be able to move. So you're paralyzed. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:38:09 And you're afraid because you can't move and you can sense something else in the room away from you. And what you're sensing is the other part of you that's leaving your body, and then the part of you that's leaving your body is standing in the room looking back at your body and instinctively thinking, I'm dying because I'm outside of my body. And it's, so it's generating this sort of fear loop where one gets more afraid and then the other gets more afraid because you're both these two separate sort of entities feeding off each other. Oh God. And that's where the whole, you know, fear thing comes from and the soul, the fear that they're gonna get you or they're gonna try and get into your body or take something from you because something, part of your spirit is moving out of your body in that moment.
Speaker 2 00:38:56 Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Have you, have you yourself, have you actually had any experiences like that yourself where you're split out of your system, out of your normal body system and being conscious? I've had some slight ones, but like the occasional one, but not really often. Right. And like, I like the theory. It makes, it makes a lot of logical set and logical sense that that's what could be happening. But it doesn't explain for me why I might see two of them or why there might be a female one when I'm male. Okay. Because that's, yeah, it doesn't quite fit all the evidence for me, but I can see it working for some people as like, that's how it would happen. Right. I, I had an experience, oh, actually I've had 2, 2, 3, now think about it. Um, two, two experiences that I'll, that I'll talk about, I'll talk about that another time.
Speaker 2 00:39:50 Um, two experiences that I'll talk about that, um, are related to this, which I find curious that we're talking about it, because when I had it had these experiences, I wasn't scared. If anything, I was really curious as to what was actually going on. Um, one time I was in the Philippines and I, oh no, this is Thailand. It was in Thailand in a, um, in my hut on a beach and just going to sleep. And next moment I'm twisting out of my body and I'm attracted to the sound that I can't explain. It's just amazing. And the, the pattern that was moving, like reverberating at the same time, and it was astoundingly big and was right there. And, um, then I realized I was looking at the fan, which was next to my bed, <laugh>, I was twisting out of my body, but the fan was right there. And my, my whatever, whatever was coming outta my body had got attracted to that because it was so fascinating. Yeah. But because I didn't have all the same perception of devices, it just wasn't recognizing it instantly. Yeah. And, uh, as, as soon as I realized it was a fan bang, I was back on my body and I just sat, I went, oh wow. What the hell was that <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:41:10 You know, I, and all I did was just lay down and sleep. And it was cause it was so humid and warm and I think for some reason I just fell out, just completely out. Um, and then I had another time, um, that I was, um, again, it was actually a very, to put it clearly, it was actually the summer's night. It was warm and everything, and I was living at a friend's place, but up in sort of like the loft above the TV room and laying in bed and, uh, totally relaxed. And next minute I'm flying around the room and I'm seeing more of the room I normally than I normally could see. And I was amazed. I was like, wow, this is really amazing. I realized the things that are being like flapping behind me are my own, my own wings. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 00:41:59 I, I, I somehow turned into an insect. I dunno what it was, I actually thought I might have been a praying manis, but I was flying around and it was totally joyous. Uh, and then I, once I realized what I actually was, I was like, oh, we better go back to my body. And I flew back to my body and I hit the, um, mosquito it. And as I hit the mosquito in it, I landed in my body and I woke up and I saw a bug hitting the mosquito net. I was like, well, what is going on? Cuz that felt like that was me. And I was that for a moment, did I just join in with the body of somebody else's thing, like an insect for a moment? I don't know. No idea. It's amazing. But that, to me, that wasn't terrifying. No.
Speaker 2 00:42:43 See, I've always wanted to do, be able to do something like that, but I've never, I've never been able to do it, going to sleep. And I've done it once or twice in a deep meditation where I've realized I can suddenly see the room around me, but my eyes are still closed. But that's, yeah. That's the extent that I've gotten to that. So yeah, I don't really have the out of body experiences like that. Well, I can't say that I'm a professional at by any means. It was just accidental <laugh>. Yeah. Both times it wasn't, there was no intention. It just happened. And I look back and go, wow. And you know, I've got a story. Yeah. So, um, but yeah. But going back, covering over this whole, uh, story arc we've been talking through today, uh, for me, those experiences weren't terrifying. And I, I do remember, you know, one of them seeing my body inside the myca, oh, I've gotta go back there and <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:43:42 And then, you know, that didn't scare me. I was like, oh no, that's where I've gotta go. You know, cause I body, but, um, didn't scare me at the time. I just felt like, this is what you do now, you know, I'm, I'm this, you know, so Yeah. And I dunno why that is, but, um, it's curious, curious stuff. Um, now you had other theories that these might be angels. Do you still hold that one? I'm not sure. Like that was, that was a really weird one. So I had another experience, um, where I had the same feeling that of a shadow person in the room. Yeah. But instead of the humanoid figure, the entire wall of the, the bedroom that I was looking at just turned into eyes. Whoa. And I was, that that was, was, it was just weird. It was one of the most recent ones.
Speaker 2 00:44:34 And that was after, after the two that talked and, um, just before I started looking into like actual angel magic and that sort of thing. Yeah. Recent as in how, how recent? Like, uh, a couple years ago. Oh, that's, yeah. When did we do the angel course? That was a couple years ago. Yeah. So it was just before that. Yeah. So, and I mean that, that might be a thing where the, the whole, they open up to it. Yeah. Yeah. But the whole angel thing where they show up and go be not afraid might be a case for these things. Not actually realizing that they're causing this sort of fear in us poor humans or, oh. Realizing that they call this cause this sort of fear and going, look, I really don't mean to do this. Can you just not be afraid and freak out so I can talk to you?
Speaker 2 00:45:27 Right. Okay. So when you did the course and you read that line, be Not afraid and then come up with so many means and memes in the course of people talking about <laugh>. Um, and that made you think of that. Yeah. So it's just like, maybe there is a class of entities that, uh, that just have that resonance or the power enough that when they show up for humans, it generates fear in the humans and it's unavoidable. It's just part of their nature. So they're not intentionally doing it. They're not feeding off it. They're just, that's just how it is. That's just the resonance that hits us. Yes. And that's why the angel will come down and say, be not afraid, because they know that as soon as they show up, humans are gonna automatically be afraid. Yeah. Even though there's no reason necessarily for it.
Speaker 2 00:46:16 Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I see it. Yeah. Again, I'm picking out these small things and trying to find a solution to a much bigger thing that I may never actually be able to understand, but life is life as an exploration. So Yeah. And that's why I hold all of these theories and just sort of sit with them and go, could be any of these, it could be all of them, it could be different ones at different times, or it may be something else entirely. Well, I like discussing them because for people out there listening, there's gonna be different angles to this and they're going to be going, wow, that makes sense to my experience of this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, do you have other contact experiences with Angels?
Speaker 2 00:47:03 When I work consciously with them, like if I ask for them to come in or call on their help, then they tend to show up, not in, not in a horrifying way though. So that's where that theory sort of breaks down. Like the, the ones I call in intentionally don't generate that fear. Right, right. So I know what you mean. I know what you mean. I, I, when, when I do work like that as well and they turn up a lot of the time, it's actually quite friendly. Yeah. I'd say to put a plainly to put a plainly. Yeah. You know, I, I've, I've had good, I mean, I would even say to have good conversations with some of, of the ones that I've worked with. Um, but then also I have other angels that turn up and they don't even speak in any way that's normal.
Speaker 2 00:47:51 And like there's, there's this one angel, I still dunno who this one is, but he turns up, or, or, or it turns up in the middle of the night usually, or just as I'm relaxing at night, or I wake up in the middle night, and then I feel like I'm gonna get a message to download from that angel. And it feels like, oh God, it's really hard to explain this. It's like somebody putting all their fingers on an, on an organ and pressing lots of keys at the same time. And, um, like, you know, when you're in a, in a church, in a large church and they've got a massive organ, they press it and then you feel it through your soul. It's like that. And they just go and, and I, I'm like, oh, it's you. There you go. You and I just, it's usually really brief, but it's like, I'm still here. <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:48:38 That's Yeah. Yeah. So surreal. But, um, every time it happens, I get so overwhelmed. That's, and, uh, yeah. See, I wonder if it's, if it's the difference between us calling them in and them choosing to come. And that's a good point. If the way that they, or if the amount of energy they have to put into showing up unannounced is much greater than what they would have to if we are reaching out to them. True. Yeah. And so that allows them to, or changes the way they communicate or the way that they feel to us. Cause when I did the, the, um, 72, the shaham, at the end of that whole big yearlong ritual, I put them all in a circle, all the siles, and called them each, each one of them. And sitting in the middle of it, it felt like they were talking to each other through my body, but using bits of their siles Okay.
Speaker 2 00:49:32 Rather than actual words. So the, the bits of the symbols were darting across the circle in all these different geometric patterns. Wow. That's awesome. Through my body in a similar way to the resonance of that, that giant chord in the organ Yeah. But without sound. But it wasn't a horrifying experience. It was a, you know, we're just, we've got this moment to talk and do downloads and Yeah. Connect whatever. Yeah. But it wasn't this, you know, overwhelming presence of, you know, this creative force of the universe coming into your bedroom and trying to say Hello <laugh>, or whatever they're doing. <laugh>. Yeah, exactly. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that too. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I had an experience with an angel when I was 19, and I know it was an angel because it changed my life dramatically and instantly. And I was at a point where I was extremely depressed.
Speaker 2 00:50:36 And, um, I was living in the Philippines. I was working, um, for a relative on their boats doing navigation, not being paid properly, having problems with my other, his partner, his his wife. And, uh, it was challenging to put it plainly. And I actually got to a point where I was depressed. I, and I was literally making a plan to, uh, join the spirits Yeah. Uh, to put it plainly. And, um, I hit the, the rock, rock rock bottom one night, and it was about, I think it was about 2:00 AM And uh, I just, I was like, I decided to myself, this is it. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I've had enough of being here this life not for me. And at the plane that I hit the absolute rock, rock, rock bottom, um, this thing happened in the room. And I, the way I explain it is instantly light was coming between the, the floorboards through the walls, through everything through me.
Speaker 2 00:51:44 And it, it washed all of that out of me instantaneously. Wow. Totally instantaneously and uplifted me. And this booming voice rang out, and it wasn't male nor female, and it just said, you are extremely important. And that's exactly what I needed to hear at that time. And from that, like literally that moment, I was like, oh, okay, well I better just better stay <laugh>. That's amazing. Well, well, and at that time I like, I didn't know where to put it and what to do with it. It's not like I was like overtly religious in any way. It just happened. And, um, my whole life turned around from that moment I realized I could leave the country, go back home to Australia and live a different sort of life again. And, um, yeah. When I came back, um, you know, everything was much better in the way I saw myself in the world.
Speaker 2 00:52:44 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I, I believe that was definitely an angel. I mean, yeah. It's not like something else taunted me, <laugh> or, um, terrified me. I was just a, I was uplifted. Yeah. And that's the, the problem that I have with the angel theory is that the, the fear doesn't, in the shadow people doesn't transmute into this uplifting feeling that you generally get from angels. Even after the first surprise of holy shit, there's an angel, it, it sort of turns into something better, but the shadow people, it doesn't, it just stays at that fear level. It's consistent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:53:22 I'm just, I'm still like absolutely puzzled with that part where they're discussing you and then once you realize they disappeared, it's like, oh man, I really, really like to this day wish I could remember or wish I knew what, what they were thinking I was ready for or not ready for. Yeah. It's like a tease. It's like, it's like, again, with all of the work that they do, which is, you know, more often not terrifying, it's just always leading you on. Yeah. It always leaves that gap for something worse that might happen that increases your fear. Yeah. So Nathan, you've had other experiences that, uh, are bit mind boggling and, um, you know, for the want of a better word, paranormal. Yep. What, what actually happened? Um, there's two actually for this, this sort of subject I guess. Um, the first one was, uh, I was a passenger in a car and we were driving along through bushland and I just sort of was, was dusk and I was just sort of glancing out the window, just aimlessly watching the trees go by.
Speaker 2 00:54:37 And I realized that running through the trees, keeping pace with the car, which would've been probably about 80 kilometers an hour, was this figure. And it was really tall and really skinny and really pale. And it just had these really long spindly limbs and it was running level with the car for maybe 500 meters before it disappeared. And yeah, it just sort of freaked me out cuz it knew, it knew we were there. Um, but you could tell it was conscious. Yeah. And I, I, I don't know if, if it's just me projecting this onto it, but I think it knew that I was watching, but it, if, even if that wasn't the case, it was definitely aware of the car and that we were there and we were the only ones on this road. And it was, it was definitely watching us and seeing what we were doing.
Speaker 2 00:55:31 So did it look at you or did, I mean, did it have a face? It didn't, didn't really have a face that I could see, but it just gave the sense of its awareness was on us. Cause it's flashing like it wasn't right next to the car. It was back through the trees a little bit. Yes. So it's flickering between the trees as it ran. Um, wow. So it's hard to make out all the details other than the long spindly limbs as they sort of moved in a really angular running gate. Do you call this like a crypted type experience? Yeah, I dunno. It may have been, it may be crypted, it may be a spiritual entity that I just happen to see because of the liminal conscious state. I'm not sure. Um, a few years later I was talking to some, um, indigenous kids up in Townsville and they were, they, they were trying to scare me, like scare the white teacher, which is really funny.
Speaker 2 00:56:27 That is awesome. Um, and they were telling me stories of of tall man who is, uh, an indigenous spirit up there, um, around that area who is long, skinny, has and pale creature that looks sort of like a tree and it runs around in the forest up there far out. Yeah. So that was kind of, that was kinda freaky for me. But then I also freaked the kids out when I told them that I'd seen. So I dunno, I dunno actually what that might mean for, for someone in the indigenous context of having seen torman. I'm probably sure it's, it's not very good, but <laugh> yeah, they weren't gonna tell me anymore and obviously didn't wanna press that, but, um, yeah, maybe's best you dunno. Yeah. <laugh>, yes. I double freaked him out because I'd also seen what they called Harry man. So Harry Man is a little, um, like, I think he's about maybe three or four feet high.
Speaker 2 00:57:26 Yeah. Creature humanoid. Um, that's just covered in dark brown hair. And I'd seen this, I'd seen, I hadn't seen a physical version of a physical manifestation of hairy man I'd seen, I'd definitely seen it in spirit. So in a similar way to the shadow people, it just sort of turned around like I was fully awake, but I turned around one night and it was standing in the doorway of the room that I was in, in the house that I grew up in. Yeah. Um, and I'd see it there occasionally, just this sort of sad looking creature just standing there sort of hunched and slumped like it was really depressed or disappointed with what was going on. And it would just be around like looking in a window or standing in a doorway. Um, and yeah, and the kids were in Townsville were describing tall man and Harry man, and I was like, I've seen both of those and this is really weird that you're telling me this now. <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:58:19 Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that one was definitely not, um, like a physical crypted creature. It was yes, was a thing that I saw with my eyes, but knew was, um, not al. Okay. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does, it does. I, it's interesting talking about the hairy man. Um, and both of these would've been quite awesome to experience. Um, I, I had a friend that lived in, um, uh, UK area and she went to a, a, a, what's was called a bushed off back then. And she was pregnant, so she wasn't, you know, no substances whatsoever. She just went for dance and she was out in the Mount Chown area, um, which is the back of uk. And um, back in those days they used to, you know, run off one the bush with a generator and a large noisy sound system and play, um, really repetitive, intense beats all night.
Speaker 2 00:59:29 Well, she was out there and for her, you know, she just needed to go for a wee, she's pregnant at the time. So she ran off into the bush and was squatting amongst a whole group of ferns, intent on, you know, doing a thing. And she looks up in front of her is a short hairy man, the exact same description you said. Um, and she, and, and she said to me, she said, this blew her mind completely. She was like, I, she felt absolutely terrified of him because she's a pregnant woman and she's seeing a little hairy man that obviously looks really angry. And she said he was, um, he looked like a little squashed short indigenous person, um, with dark, um, hair. She said it was dark hair because it was, you know, obviously dark as well, but she could still see him and he's face and expressions and he was bashing his hands on his, um, on his, uh, knees and his, his legs really angle you as if to say, turn that music off.
Speaker 2 01:00:33 We've had enough, we've had enough. We <laugh>, we just wanna sleep, you know, sort of thing. Which I can understand cause I mean, I've lived up in the bush up in those areas myself and when the Ds are going, it's like, no one sleeps <laugh>. Oh no. Just carry everywhere. Oh God. You can imagine. Right? And so soon as this, you know, she, you know, um, saw this little guy and he is really angry. She thought, that's it, I'm under threat here. I'm running. And she ran, she pulled her pants up and ran straight away from that, that situation. Jumped in a car and drove home. And she never told anyone until we had met at that time. She told me. And I was like, that's a, that's a fantastic story and I'll look into it one day. And um, I had a chance to, I was actually on a walk one time going up, um, bun Lung Mountain, um, otherwise known as Mount Warning.
Speaker 2 01:01:26 Um, back in those days it was something that you could do with an elder. And I was walking out with an elder and we were talking about all sorts of things to do with, um, bush um, foods and medicines and stuff. And I said to him, I've got this story. And I told him the story and he said, oh my God. He said, where was that? And I told him, he said, that's, that's, that's a nimbin. And I said, what do you mean that's a nimbin? He said, that's, we call that a nimbin. He's, he's, he hasn't been cited for such a long time, but it means little hairy man. Oh yeah, yeah. Wow. I was like, I was like, wow, that's really cool and also really strange at the same time and very interested. He goes, oh, I'm so glad that somebody's seen him time.
Speaker 2 01:02:08 And I was like, wow, that's, that's awesome. I feel like that was meant to go around that story. So yeah, I have to say though, I'm, I'm sort of glad that I saw mine. It wasn't the physical entity cuz I would've freaked out as well if, if I'm single <laugh>, like shadow people are bad enough. But having, having something that I absolutely know is, is physically there. I Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. If the intensity of actual physical experiences Yeah. Is can, can be a bit too much. I mean, I'd like to think that I'd, you know, be respectful and say hello and have some sort of meaningful spiritual connection with it, but I'd probably just scream and run to be honest. <laugh>, which is what she does <laugh>. Yeah. Lady. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, um, it's been a good talk today with you, Nathan.
Speaker 2 01:03:05 Um, considering all of we've discussed, I mean, and and your experiences over time. Um, do you have any cosmology that you, any frameworks that you have all that, that go around? All of that? Not really. It's just, yeah, there's just clearly a lot more out there than is standardly taught in Western culture? Absolutely. Yeah. Like it, and as soon as you start to raise these sorts of things with people, their initial response is, oh, that's, that's garbage. It's not real. It's just in your head. And then two minutes later they'll have all these stories about the ghost that they saw or anything. Exactly. That's it. That's it. And it happens all the time. Yeah. And it's there and it happens and people put it away in a box in their heads, but just say, yeah, but you can still open it and it's still there.
Speaker 2 01:03:57 Yes. Um, but yeah, I have no unifying cosmology as you can see from all my different theories about the shadow people. I try to keep an open mind about what could be out there cuz I know that I, I can't know everything for sure. And if I did it would, there'd probably be something broken with that theory. Right. So yeah, I try and I try and keep a really open mind and just see what happens. Yeah, yeah. It's always gonna change. Yeah. Like I'll add the next thing to the pile and see if that changes the pattern or the color or whatever else is going on there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's been an excellent talk. Thank you so much for coming onto super normalized, Nathan. It's, I really appreciate the time you've spent here with us today and, uh, all, all of your stories that you've shared and, uh, yeah, I look forward to talking to you more in the future. That'll be great. Thanks for having me. Yeah. All right. Bye for now, <laugh>. Bye.
Speaker 1 01:04:59 Thanks for listening today. If you have an experience you'd like to share, please get in contact with me. You can do so via Facebook, via Instagram. Just look for the super normalized, which is all one word. Um, search on those apps to find me. Otherwise, you can, can send me email direct super normalized, which is one word, super normalized with the
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Speaker 0 01:05:36 Week.
