[00:00:00] Speaker A: So Zen and the Buddha said, sometimes you're going to feel crappy and it's not a problem, you just feel crappy. And you don't have to feel crappy about feeling crappy.
You can just sometimes you wake up in the morning and that's the weather.
So how do we meet that weather?
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Welcome to supernormalize, the podcast, where we challenge the conventional break boundaries and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me, CJ Barnaby, in the liminalist space to explore less charted realms of existence and to unravel the mysteries of life. Experience each episode I'm blessed with the opportunity to talk to regular people from across the world where they openly share their understanding and wisdom in service to others. If you're looking to upgrade your life, you've come to the right place. Be sure to like and subscribe and I'll bring you great transforming conversations each week. My treasured viewers and listeners. If you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at supernormalizedroton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and unusual what it really is, completely normal. David Reinek is a distinguished Zen teacher integrating spiritual wisdom into coaching for personal development. David was leading what would you say, like a normal sort of life, getting pulled to and fro by everyone's ideas about what you should be in society. And then had a breakthrough experience that lasted 72 hours, but then created a yearning in him to understand more of who he is and where he is and where he is going. He discovered that through Zenith and then took that understanding over time into coaching and teaching practices, which has culminated in some books. We talk about all of that today in this episode of super normalised. Enjoy.
Welcome to supernormalized David Reinick. David, you found Zen in your life and welcome to the show.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Thanks, I found the show too.
Been a good life.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Yes, David, I'm interested to know who was David before Zen became a part of your story.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Well, I am the son of a presbyterian minister, so here in the US we would call me a pknorthenne. A preacher's kid.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: And my dad, his faith was quite down to earth and he believed that God was someone and the spirit is something we can touch and feel in our daily lives.
So I was interested in religion and involved through looking into Christianity.
And then I had a real crisis in university and the crisis was I was quite successful and miserably unhappy.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Oh, okay, so you fit the mold, but you didn't want to fit the mold.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Exactly. I was a good boy. I knew how to figure out what people around me wanted and give the teachers what they wanted. So they called me a good student. I had no idea that education or life had anything to do with me.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: So, yeah. So when I hit that crisis, it was really difficult because I thought, I've done everything I'm supposed to, I've played by the rules.
But clearly it was not satisfying.
And out of that, I had a mystical experience in the middle of the darkness.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: And in that experience, I realized that the universe is fully alive and undying and that we are part of it.
We have never been separate and that there was nothing that had to be done.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: That's interesting.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: This was quite a shock for a young, good boy who played by the rules.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: What precipitated that experience?
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Well, it is the one and only time I took LSD in my life.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to ask because that's the same for me. When it came to Zen, was LSD.
I don't think the Buddhists like that.
They don't like talking about that aspect.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Well, I don't.
My trip lasted for about 72 hours.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Whoa. God, that's long.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: I really felt lucky to come out of it, and that changed me.
For many months, I was aglow and clearly saw and loved everyone. I came in contact. I was so blissed out, and I could see the divine in everyone. And it was visible and palpable. People kind of flocked to me and wanted to hang out with me and.
But slowly that faded.
That great experience that was so clear.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: It created a yearning, though, didn't it?
[00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes.
And then, so I spoke to different religious people. I spoke to a catholic priest and a protestant minister, and they had heard about it and read about this, but it was clear they did not know.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: So I gradually and very painfully re entered the normal stream of things and began to see that my desire to be holy. And it was just another ego trip and began to see the whole spiritual thing. Seemed like an ego trip to me, you know, to be good and pure, just another idea of the self.
But then I heard a Zen teacher talk, and I knew he knew what I knew.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Who was he?
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Richard Clark. He's a Canadian who ran this small Zen group in Connecticut in northeastern United States, where I was living.
And so I started my Zen practice with him. Actually, my wife and I had been married for.
Oh, actually, we had been living together for five years. We heard him together.
We had, you know, been exposed to Zen in university and knew a little bit about it. But he was the first Zen teacher we met, and both of us, right then and there, said, this is the way.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: What was that talk about at the time?
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Do you remember what was his talk about?
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: His talk was that life is here and that what you're looking for is already here and that nothing is lacking in this very moment.
And all we have to do is slow down and that this practice of Zen is a way of moving toward this. And it was so reassuring because my experience bordered on psychosis. I mean, you know, people have these experiences and they're so hard to integrate. And in Zen, I found this whole tradition that spoke of these experiences, you know, so we can call them awakening or enlightenment, but there are ways to see through this world as it is and to be free right in the middle of it. And Zen had this long tradition of working with people after enlightenment. So we begin to think, oh, just, you want to get that experience, and once you have that experience, everything is fine. No, no, no. Once you have that experience, you begin.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: That's just the start. Yeah. Yeah.
So you found yourself at the center of the cyclone and.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: And then you had to find a way to realize that, you know, stepping into the cyclone wasn't the way.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Well, you know, I was a sociology major, and I had a wonderful mentor who gave me a copy of Joseph Campbell's first book. He's an anthropologist, mythologist. He wrote a book called the Hero with a thousand faces.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I read.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: He was very clear in that book. He said, the hero's journey is up to the top of the mountain and all the trials and tribulations and to get that wisdom. But that's just the first half of the hero's journey. Then the hero has to climb down the mountain and enter back into the marketplace.
So that's been the next 50 years of my life.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: So you've integrated your understanding of that Satori experience and now you share it with the world.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah. As I continue to practice. And we mentioned before, I'm coming out with a new book on September 1, and it's a series of short vignettes about exactly this issue. So it's easy to say life is all around and what you're looking for is here. But when you wake up in the morning and your back is out and you're in a bad mood, what does it mean then?
Does it really include even that?
And so they're just little stories of my experience and really my commitment, which is ongoing to appreciating this moment both at sea level, like, you're in Australia, I'm in the United States.
That's true. And yet here we are, kind of heart to heart. We're looking at each other on the screen, and your eyes kind of twinkle a little bit. And I know that, you know, a few things, too.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: It does echo my story because I did actually experiment a little way back when myself and did find for myself that it pushed me into this really super deep meditation process.
And then after a while, I had the same satori. It happened, and it made me severely. What severely? Just accurately and perfectly still in every moment and to the point where if I stood still, everything would dissolve into light. And it was quite bizarre and unnerving, but yes, but I had to learn how to integrate that myself because no one else knew what was going on, you know, and I was reading, reading these same books. I actually read that same book, the hero's Journey, the man with. Yes, that's it. And then also I was reading at the same time Carlos Castneta, which was quite interesting.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: People have talked about this.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's just interesting how that's sort of like an echo of that same story but from a different angle. It's like, how interesting is that? And it made me realize I'm on that path. You know, I was on that hero's journey, and I've lived that Hero's journey myself.
Yeah. Yeah. So nowadays, you're not riding the bull anymore. So what do you do as a daily practice?
[00:13:30] Speaker A: What?
[00:13:31] Speaker B: What do you do as a daily practice?
[00:13:34] Speaker A: I meditate. My wife and I actually started a Zen community that began in 1991 with four people in our living room. And now we own a big victorian house and do residential retreats and daily do a practice on Zoom as well as in person.
So the wonderful thing about Zen is that it's both nourishment coming into that still place.
And also, since this doesn't fixate whatever experience you have, you cannot put it in your pocket and say, it is mine. Right. But we can learn to navigate that and in a sense, use that as a touchstone so that in every moment we can fully commit to being present.
And the great spiritual problem, of course, is forgetting.
We think, oh, yeah, I really know this. And then we forget.
We are still irritated when someone does something, cuts me off in traffic or, you know, my body breaks down. I'm still reactive. Right? Still, I am fully human. These experiences do not save you from your life, but life itself.
Sometimes we say, your miserable karma becomes your wonderful dharma.
So this life, all of us have these patterns, and our families have had the patterns, and we're kind of all working, working on that. And that's not a problem.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: It's just what is.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's so painful and difficult at times. And I remember going to my teacher. My second teacher was George Bowman, who was one of the first dharma heirs of sun Sanim, who established the quantum school of Zen. It's a korean Rinzai tradition that's now worldwide. But I went to him, and I was very upset about something in my life. And I was telling him this story, and I was crying and crying, and he listened, and then he had me pause, and he said, you don't expect Zen to save you from your life, do you?
And I said, well, as a matter of fact.
So the Buddha's first teaching is that suffering and discomfort are unavailable, unavoidable.
They are fully available.
And we're taught in our culture, in our western culture, and almost every culture, we want to get rid of the problem.
If you feel bad, it's because you're not thinking right or you're nothing, you know, with the right person.
So. So Zen. And the Buddha said, sometimes you're going to feel crappy, and it's not a problem.
You just feel crappy. And you don't have to feel crappy about feeling crappy. Right. You can just, sometimes you wake up in the morning and that's the weather.
So how do you, how do we meet that weather?
[00:17:23] Speaker B: What is Zen to you? I mean, this is something I've struggled with as I try to describe it. I mean, at the age of 21, when I went through my process, I actually wrote a little small book called sometimes I look into a mirror and allow myself to be surprised. And I was trying to transmit that information to everyone, and it didn't seem to get to anyone. Like, I published 500 and gave them away, and two people got it. So I still consider that a success.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: So, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah. What is Zen? So one teacher said, it's the oak tree in the garden.
It could say it is just this moment.
And Zen is a path.
It's not a belief system.
It is a religion. There are rituals and practices. We do our main practice in Zen, we call Zazen seated meditation.
Zen is a word that comes, is the japanese version of the chinese word chan, which is the chinese version of the pali word jnana, which means meditation.
So Zen meditation is actually meditation meditation, but we sit still and in an upright and dignified posture.
And we do our best to be present to what is here.
Zen is a very physical practice. It can seem very intellectual. So if you try to explain. So one of the concepts of Zen that you got is no fixed self, right? You think, well, I know who I am. Well, look in the mirror.
That's not who you were yesterday and certainly not who you were ten years ago.
But I love this. I love the title of the book. It's one of those books I'm going to benefit from, just from the title, because it is the delusion of the mind is, I know what's going on, and that's the way we keep the world in its right place and keep this imaginary control. And Zen invites us to let things be.
And so my practice for now, over 40 years, has been mostly with the breath being present with the sensation of the breath.
I've done a whole co on training of these enigmatic stories, but basically it's just sitting and it's very difficult to do. When I started meditating after I heard this Zen teacher, I thought, well, I'm going to do this every day. And I thought, I'm an enthusiastic guy. So I thought, well, if I do it 2 hours a day, that'll probably get me there quicker. But I knew if I did it 2 hours a day, I would probably last about a week. So I said, I'm going to sit for three minutes a day, because I did not like to sit still. It was not fun for me, but it was clear that if I wanted to cut through, if I wanted to follow this path, this was the way. So I would set my little egg timer for three minutes, and by the end of the second minute, I was jumping out of my skin.
But I continued and built up and went to retreats and had a teacher and had a community, which I think are so essential on this path. It's so challenging.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Do you have any cons that you could share that illustrate the zen space that you'd like to.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: I.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: So there's a student who comes to a teacher, and the teacher says, where are you coming from? And the student said, I'm wandering about on pilgrimage.
What a wonderful thing. I'm wandering about on pilgrimage. And the teacher says, what's the purpose of your pilgrimage?
And the student says, I don't know.
And the teacher says, not knowing is most intimate.
Not knowing is most intimate.
So two parts of that I love, and these koans are stories that we look into as stories about us.
We. You are both the teacher and the student.
So you are the one. Where am I coming from? What's going on?
And so this wonderful student, I think we're all wandering about on pilgrimage, right? I think of the celtic pilgrimage, where you would set off in a round boat in the sea without a paddle.
And wherever the sea washed you on shore, that was your destination.
We think sometimes we know who's in control of our life, but then things happen. So we're all on pilgrimage.
And then this purpose and Zen places great value in this not knowing.
And in the title of your book. Say it one more time. This could increase sales of your book.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: I doubt it, but okay.
Sometimes I look in a mirror and allow myself to be surprised.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's that, uh, that not knowing. If I think I know who I am, then it's a lot to carry then. And if so, if I think I'm a Zen master, then I have to be careful to feel like a Zen master and act like a Zen master and defend it. If anybody says, well, no, you're not much of a Zen master.
So, you know, whatever idea we have of ourself, then it gets us into trouble, and then we kind of become an imitation of ourself.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Hey, everyone, I'm excited to share that you can now support the show on Patreon. Go to patreon.com supernormalized. Your contributions help me to create even more amazing content. Please check out the link below in the show notes and join our community and unlock exclusive perks. Thank you so much for your support.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So this possibility of not knowing, I mean, so we can say, I'm thinking, but where do your thoughts come from? Who do they belong to?
You don't know where they come from? I don't know where my thought, they appear in my head and I say, well, I am thinking.
In buddhist psychology, thinking is the 6th sense.
So it's a sense. And sometimes I have this image that moods are a vibration in the universe that travels around. And when the dark mood comes over me, it just comes over me. And then I can fill in the details.
I do remember waking up one morning feeling really heavy and like, oh, you know, life is so hard.
So I felt that. And then I consciously remember scanning through my life to find problems, and then I found problems that, oh, well, that's why I'm feeling this, this way. But it was clear that this feeling of heaviness and oppression just came first. And I filled in the content so I could kind of amp it up a little bit and keep it going.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: That could be the fruit of life if you choose it to be.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: It could be the what?
[00:25:48] Speaker B: The fruit of life if you choose it to be.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: But you could use that as a stepping stone away from the state.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Right. Well, and so when students come to me and say, I'm feeling terrible, I say, great.
What's it like to feel terrible?
Right.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: So you have a nice, kindly stick that you get out and.
Yes, yes, that's cool. That's cool.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: And, and that's. So the point of Zen is not to be calm. I mean, the common misunderstanding is Zen is about some kind of flatline state. Life is actually this wonderful wave, this sine curve, and it will flatten out eventually. You don't have to worry about that, right. The machines will all go flatline, and that'll be the end of this body. But Zen is about appreciating where we are, about both riding the up when things are coming together and energetic and exciting, and then when things fall apart, as they will, everything is falling apart. The Buddha said one of his last words, everything falls apart. And this is not the bad news.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: It's just news.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: It's just the way it is. And we get to be alive, you and I and everyone listening to it, we get to be alive. Surfing in these waves that sometimes they're so overwhelming that we were drowning. Our boat tips over. My boat still tips over sometimes.
That's how it is to be a human being.
I think there's some spiritual disciplines where you try to get up to the top of the mount and just stay there.
You want to transcend.
Zen, for me, is not about transcendence, but more about appreciation.
It is an extraordinary thing to have feelings, to have a family that is difficult and troublesome and wonderful.
All of that is a part of our life.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: It's just what is.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: Right.
And so the quote I chose for the beginning of my book is a three year old may be able to say it, but an 80 year old can't put it into practice.
So it's just what is. It's a beautiful saying, and it's so true. And to live that, to practice that, to practice acceptance and to practice acceptance with our non acceptance.
Right. Because when that resistance comes up, we can resist the resistance and think, okay, I'm going to cut out this resistance. Yeah, but then you're just getting into the cycle again and again, going around.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Yeah. If you can step out of that flow and recognize the adverse reaction for what it is and pull yourself back, and actually it can become amusing. And you end up laughing at yourself, which is really quite a fun place to be.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Well, and it is one of the things I appreciate about Zen in the literature and in the practice. Uh, there's a great sense of humor.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: You know that this stuff is so serious and so challenging, and yet it's so poignant and we're so silly, all of us, you know, and we think, oh, yeah, I'm over that. I'm not like. And then the next day something happens. Oh, I guess I am still like that, still a human being.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: I am endlessly embarrassed by myself.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: There's a level of acceptance there that's just wonderful.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: So, well, you know, it's such a relief because there is this striving, this ego striving that we grew up with, and we can turn that into a spiritual ego striving.
But the nature of the striving is to try to get something for this little self. And whether you're trying that through Zen or through being a lawyer or whatever, it's not going to get you what you want.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just another distraction.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
And the ego is endlessly devious.
Right. Because we think, yeah, okay, now I really see that. And then it kind of sneaks up. And so there is this constant. In fact, as I began to have a larger profile as a Zen teacher, I said to my teacher, I said, you know, I'm afraid that some of this has to do with my ego. And he laughed and he said, of course it does.
If you didn't do this, it would have to do with your ego.
So then, oh, great, I don't have to worry about it. Of course my ego is involved in this.
And so I dance with what I have and work with it. And as you say, when we can see it for what it is, then this dance of life is sweet and funny and so poignant.
We work so hard, all of us as human beings, and it's so challenging.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah, we punched a ticket for the row. We might as well enjoy it. And it sounds like Zen's a really good path.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: You know, it really is. And it's a very rigorous path because the training, the momentum of the circuits in the brain, you know, we're just this consciousness. And I think it's not just our culture, because I read the Buddha's teaching 2600 years ago, and he's talking to human beings just like you and me. They didn't have headphones and microphones and zoom, I don't think. But they still had this consciousness and the Buddha said that our basic delusion is this delusion of separation.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: And from this normal view of reality, it's very clear to me that there are two kinds of things in the world. There's me and there's the world and consciousness in my brain. I think I'm here and I'm seeing the world out there. Well, I'm making that up because, of course, I'm part of the world. There's no place, no vantage point to stand outside of this great soup that we're all in. But yet the mind, because of the gift of consciousness. And I think having an ego is a wonderful thing. Highly recommend it, because then you can have food in your refrigerator. You might be able to have a job, you might be able to make plans for going on vacation.
So ego is a very useful thing. It's just not a very great master.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
Okay. So I was going to ask you about your coaching practices. How do you integrate your knowledge from your various disciplines into that?
[00:33:29] Speaker A: You know, it's a wonderful question that people have asked me for 20 years since I started coaching, and I happen to be lucky enough to stumble upon a theory of coaching called coactive coaching and co active coaching. Says human beings are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. And my job as coach is not to diagnose problems or solve problems or tell people what to do, but to help people touch what is most deep inside them and then ask them to take steps in that direction. And the definition of fulfillment, in my view of coaching, fulfillment is not a destination.
Fulfillment is when we act in alignment with what we love.
So that's. I encourage my clients and my Zen students, too. In Zen, we call it bodhichitta, the heart, mind, this energy.
It does seem to me fairly clear that all of us on this planet have some things we love and some things not so much, and that each of us is designed differently. I love to spend time in the garden getting dirty and digging and seeing things grow.
My wife likes to look out the window at the flowers I plant, and that's her idea of gardening, is looking from the window.
And so what, for me, brings me great joy and satisfaction. And this nurturing and taking care of is not what brings her that same kind of joy. So in the coaching, I ask people, what do you love and what brings you alive?
So there's that focus not of what I should do, because I spent the first part of my life being a really good shooter. I could, you know, perform and smile, and people would pat me on the back and said, oh, you're such a wonderful person. But that was not fulfilling doing it for other people. So after I had my drug trip, I ended up quitting the wrestling team. I was co captain of the wrestling team at my university. I started studying modern dance and improvisational dance and started doing pottery because I had no idea what I wanted or cared about. I was so focused on other people and the dance was a way that brought me into my body. And this improvisation, following. And the same way with Clay, making things with Clay, you know, you're going to make your cup with straight walls or you're going to bow them out, you know, and you learn to follow and see what looks and feels right. So there is a way of following.
And so in my coaching, then, it feels very similar to how I meet people in Zen meetings. And one of the things about Zen is that most traditions have these, what's called Dokson, individual meetings with the teacher, where you'll meet with a teacher in very traditional monasteries, where I have been, the meeting could be 5 seconds or 10 seconds. You look at the teacher, he looks at you and he rings his bell and that's it. But we take three minutes or five or ten minutes, but it's showing up with what is. So for you, how is it for you? Well, my mind is on fire.
And as I said, I'll say, wow, your mind is on fire. That's my great Zen wisdom. After all these years, I can acknowledge what's true, but I can also be interested in it and help that person. Well, what's it like when your mind is on fire? And so in coaching, it's what's here now. And one of the things I do in coaching is increase people's capacity to be with the ups and downs of life because it's going to happen. So in coaching, if someone is stuck, I don't try to get them unstuck.
I get stuck with them and say, what's here? Right? What if you didn't know what this place was? What is there here you've never noticed before? Because these places where we say we're stuck are so rich and energetic. They're just filled with life.
And if our stuck places, our resources, we're all in good shape.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Brilliant. Yeah, that's brilliant. I love the way you frame that.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: And so I do that. And then the lovely thing and the thing I learned in my coach training is about translating insight into action.
So in my coaching session, someone will have say, well, I really love to do this or do that. And so I will say, okay, this next week, what will you do?
So someone says, I love to sing, and say, okay, your homework is to sing every day for ten minutes.
And then there's an accountability. Like, I don't think that person doesn't have to do that for me. But if you say you love singing, I'll say, sing.
And then, of course someone will come back and I'll say, well, how did it go? Well, I did it one day and I'll say, okay, so what did you learn?
Well, I learned if I don't put it on my calendar, I don't do it. Or I learned that I'm really afraid of. So there's always learning, whether it's you succeed or whether you fail. In fact, with my clients, I always say, so every time you fail, we're going to have a little party, because I want you to get better at the skill of failing. Because if you're willing to fail in service of what you love, you are nearly unstoppable.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Sounds like you're building resilience to help people find their way.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. And then appreciating whatever happens.
What did you learn? Well, I learned I actually don't like to sing that much. I like to run or I like to solve problems or whatever.
And for me, in Zen, sometimes we talk about the three abodes of Buddha, the Dharmakaya, the sambhoga kaya, and the nirmanakaya. The dharmakaya is the source. It's the Tao. It's where everything comes from. Nothing can be said. It's this silence that you experience so keenly. So that's the dharmakaya. The samboga kaya is the realm of our dreams and our hopes and our fears. It's that emotional vision realm. And that's part of the manifestation. What do you love? The nirmanakaya is the action body. So in Zen, we spend a lot of time doing nothing. But then the deal is, the point of Zen is not about sitting around, but engaging in life. So when you get up from your cushion, what is yours to do and do it. Manifest your love. You love the world. How are you going to express that?
[00:41:53] Speaker B: You've expressed. Expressed that by writing a book recently. And I did, and it's just about to come out. So wandering close to home, tell us the story of that.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, the book started, it's my second book, and I had written a book about twelve years ago, and the first book came about because I failed on the book. I thought I should write.
I thought I should write a book about Zen and coaching. And first you do this, then you do that, and stepwise. And it was so boring, I just couldn't stand it. And I realized I don't really believe in formulas.
And while I was trying to write that other book, I started writing these short pieces, you know, 500 words, 700 words about my tomato seedlings or about my bad mood.
And they were so much more alive that I ended up telling my first publisher, I'll give you your money back for the advance, because I cannot write that book that I wrote such a beautiful proposal for. But here's what I have. And they were willing to publish that. That was twelve years ago. And I stopped writing. Hadn't done it for a while, but when the pandemic started, I decided I needed to reach out and offer something. So I started writing daily and sending it out to a small group of friends.
And after about a year and a half, I looked at all of that and people, I had some people. When's your next book coming out? When's your next book? And I started looking through those, and over the next two years realized that by starting from those things I had written that I really, I love beauty and I am a potter. And so to make a mug that feels right in the hand to arrange a garden bed where the rocks are in the right place, gives me great satisfaction. So I wanted to put these together in a beautiful object.
So I worked with a publisher and helped design a book. And there are, I think, 103 entries.
And some of them are silly. Some are about my grandson learning to jump in puddles, and I. Some are about the garden, some are about making decisions, some are about some Zen things. But it's taking. I really tried to take what was genuinely arising and take it.
So I say over and over again, what you're looking for is right here. Not when you get to be a better meditator, not when you change. So I tried to practice that and tried to follow what was arising in the moment in my life, in my mind.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: Well, I look forward to having that book. I actually, just, while we were talking, then I pre ordered the Kindle edition myself because I like reading. Oh, good.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: And it's the kind of book you can just dip into.
There's so many chapters and you can go from front to back, but it can also be a, let's open the book here, because they're all self contained.
And people have said, actually, my next door neighbor has seen an advance copy and she said, you talk about things that I know about, but you offer me some new way into the ordinary things of my life.
And I thought, oh, that's a wonderful compliment.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: That sounds like beauty has been shared.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
And to be able to, you know, as you felt when you wrote your first book, you touch something, you see something, and the heart wants to give it away.
[00:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah. That was the purpose.
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Turns out it's kind of difficult to do.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The ineffable is actually inevitable for a reason. Right? Yeah.
So, well, awesome, David. So we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Wanted to ask you, how can people find you? I mean, they can find your book on Amazon. It's on there already, so that's cool.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it'll be, you know, September 1 on Sunday. Well, when this. This podcast goes out, it'll be after that. So, yeah, it's available now. The paperback is beautiful. I want to say it's a matte cover, and you'll love holding it as I do. I sleep with under my pillow. No, not really.
But you can find out more about me. Get in touch with me through my website, David reinek.com dot.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:07] Speaker A: And you can also learn more about Zen and the community that my wife and I
[email protected]. o r G.
And we have daily sittings that anyone is invited to. There's no charge.
We give some basic instruction. There's some talks and opportunity.
Since the pandemic, we were never on Zoom, but since the pandemic, we're on Zoom. So we do have people all over the world.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: We meet 07:00 a.m. and 07:00 p.m. eastern standard time.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: Well, that could reach pretty much most people. Well, I'm actually here. I'm here at 08:00 a.m. we'll say.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: 08:00 a.m. okay, what time is there?
615 here.
[00:47:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:57] Speaker A: In the evening.
[00:47:58] Speaker B: So that's reasonable, you know.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You could do a 07:00 thing.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:04] Speaker A: So anyway, those are two ways to find me.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you so much, David. It's been a pleasure to talk to you, and I really have enjoyed your, how would you say it, your framing of the unframed. Really, it's touching that you can talk about it so well and so clearly and just speaks to the understanding that you actually live. And that's a treasure. Thank you so much for sharing.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well, this was a treasure. You can tell when I touch this place, when we touch it. And to have someone like you who a kindred spirit, it's kind of easy. To get excited about life, isn't it?
[00:48:51] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
All right, David, I'll just say goodbye to the listeners.
[00:48:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:49:04] Speaker B: It was actually truly a pleasure to speak with David today. I love the Zen space. I was in that space, and I think we're always, always in it, but I was deep in it way back when I was around about 21 years old. And it was deep. In fact, I had one friend ask me one day. She said to me, where. Where do you want to live? And I said, I'm going to live right here. Because I was so centered in the now. And, uh, yeah, it was wild and beautiful, and everything became amusing. So, yeah, all power to David. Love the work that he's doing and everything he shared today. And if you've enjoyed today's show, please like and subscribe. And if you're on YouTube, that is, and if you're on a podcast app, you know, stop for a second. Give me five stars, write something nice. That'd be really cool, too. I'd really appreciate it. And if you think a friend would actually enjoy this episode, please share this to one friend. That'd be very nice, too. Thank you so much for listening. Until the next episode, it's bye for now.
Sadeena Lamb.
