Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What today has been life giving? What's given you life and sense of peace? And what second question has been depleting? What's taken life away?
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Welcome to supernormalize, the podcast, where we challenge the conventional break boundaries and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me, CJ, as we explore less uncharted realms of existence and unravel the mysteries of life. Experience my treasured listeners, if you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at supernormalized. That's supernormalized with a z at proton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and unusual as what it really is. Completely normal.
Today on supernormalized, we have Catherine Duncan, an integrative spiritual consultant and author of Everyday Awakening, and she brings a wealth of personal and professional experiences to her work. With a background as a childhood cancer survivor and having survived also two near death experiences, Catherine's journey led her to a transition from a corporate career to becoming a chaplain, guiding individuals at end of life. And through her practice, she helps clients embrace their true nature, open their hearts and souls, and live authentically.
We cover all that and her connection to angels and spirits as well. So I hope you enjoy the show.
Welcome to supernormalize. Catherine Duncan.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Thank you. Good to meet you this morning.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah, good to meet you, too. I'm very interested in your work. You're an ordained minister and former trauma and hospice chaplain and a first time author of your book, Everyday Awakening. And it makes me wonder what inspired you, Catherine, to transition from your corporate job to become a chaplain at a trauma hospital and later a hospice chaplain.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Well, that's a good question.
I followed our family path of a lot of siblings, father in the business world, and enjoyed advertising, enjoyed working with Time magazine.
And I just actually started feeling nudging inside of myself. Like this wasn't quite it. And it was a bit disconcerting given that I had one of the top print jobs in Minnesota, working with Time magazine and making good money, and it was meeting a very interesting people. But my heart was feeling restless and I just annoying was coming through me that just. This wasn't quite where I was being called.
And I knew I would leave and I knew I needed to just kind of be able to listen internally. And it was a near death experience. When I was in my 30s, it was a timing trip in Costa Rica, Rico whitewater rafting, where after that experience, living through it, I was just like, I'm done. I need to listen to open to where I'm being called. And it was a dramatic change to leave the corporate world to then open into, to come to studying theology.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Right. Did you actually have an accident or something on the water?
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a timing trip. We went on a whitewater rafting excursion for the day. It was level three, level four rapids. And if you can believe it, the head of our raft was head of this Olympic team from Costa Rica. Instead of all the other rafts going down around the rapids, this guy was going straight down the middle. And I was in the very back corner and I had a vest and a helmet on, and I was thrown overboard going through rough rapids and deep underwater, and I was curled up in a ball and was pitch black. And I'm like, this is it. I'm going to die from. I faced death as a child, and this white light came around me and this voice said, living or dying is fine. And it was a knowing of just surrendering to this piece. I didn't know what was going to happen, but I think because I surrendered and I let go, I was able to come out from underneath this rapid. So it was a soul shaping, huge transition point for me, going through that to then realizing I didn't want to work in the corporate world anymore.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Right. So it was literally a baptism by God, in a way.
Wow. I had a similar experience to that when I was 30 years old. We went rafting on a river that was just really full and because of a lot of rain, and we all thought it was a great idea at the time. We're going down, and there was a part that was really peaceful. And I'm like, why is it so peaceful right here? And didn't know that there was like a downdraft going underneath a log and suddenly sucked underwater. And I'm underwater under a log going, what the hell is going on? Because it was just so sudden. You had no chance to actually even respond in any way.
And I thought in that moment, I could die here. If I choose to, I could die here. And I pushed my way out and I was like, that's it. I'm not down this river anymore. This is a life change point, too, for me. I was like, no, this is not good.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: You have to be careful. Whitewater rafting, especially if you're not in this country, you have to be careful.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
So what are the key principles that you emphasize in your private practice to help individuals embrace their true nature and live authentically? What actually came of all that when it came to your understanding?
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Well, for years, I worked as a chaplain, and I was with our level one trauma hospital, Hennepin County Medical center, and then I was with hospice, our Fairview health system hospice program. And then I just felt drawn to start my private practice and work with a broader range of people. Not just people, end of life. In hospice, you're with people dying all day, every day. So in my private practice, I provide emotional and spiritual support.
It's a hybrid of talk therapy, but also I'm trained in a range of healing modalities. I'm really passionate about whole person healing, mind, body, spirit, and helping people find that deep strength, that sense of groundedness and well being and really coming into their heart and soul. So that's the depth of the work that I do. And that also led me to writing my first book, everyday awakening.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Excellent. Excellent. Okay, and what are the key principles that you emphasize in your work everyday awakening? I mean, you've drawn from your personal life and client work and using this to shed light on what it means to be fully and engaged in life.
How does that play out in the book?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Well, my book has five practices, so it's everyday five practices for living fully, feeling deeply and coming into your heart and soul. And these are five practices that I've lived organically since starting as a young child. And the practices are, come back to the present moment is the first practice. Connect with something greater. Grow your trust, embody love and hold openness. And so I talk about what does it mean to come in the present moment? What does it mean to feel love in your heart and hold openness? But I also have 42 exercises in my book, so I don't want my book to be just theory being in your mind. I want to share with people, try this breath exercise or this meditation or this body movement. These are things that I do personally and professionally share with my clients.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Nice. So you're actually writing more about practices that you found that worked really well for you, and then you passed on to others as you found effectiveness.
Nice.
In what ways does your background as a childhood cancer survivor and near death experiencer shape your perspective on exploring the sacredness of meaning of life? I mean, near death experiences are massive changes for people, and when people go through them, you see more of life that you've never seen before.
How did that happen for you? How does that change your perspective?
[00:09:31] Speaker A: Well, I would say the near death experience I had in my 30s deepened the path I was already on of exploring why am I alive? What does it mean to be here? But this started truly, when I was eleven years old, I was diagnosed with suddenly really sick, diagnosed with a very rare childhood cancer.
My parents were told I had a 20% chance to live. I was so little. I mean, I remember them going, we went to the hospital and I thought, oh, I'll have to take like a tylenol or. I mean, I'd never heard the word before, I was so little. But I started going through intensive treatment, chemotherapy, radiation, surgeries. And this was in the back then. They did have chaplains, they did have counselors, ministers, but no one talked to me. And my mother, who I'd say religious, would say, you're going to be fine. And that was comforting. But there was no sense of reality about what was happening, what I was going through. So I would say I grew up very quickly. I started to feel like I was between life and death. I felt like I was walking on a tightrope on the edge.
And out of nowhere I started to plead with God. The universe didn't even really have words for it to live. I wanted to live. I knew in my heart. And so I just like, could I live? And I thought if I could just live to be 20 years old, I would see the world. And so I just started praying. And I never told anyone, but it wasn't long after, not long after that, this peace just like, came through my body.
It was a knowing that I wasn't alone. And it was a knowing that I was going to be okay. And that set me on the path of. After I got through treatments, just starting to search, like, what does it mean to be alive right now? I started this and started voraciously reading books and thinking about this, starting as a teenager.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Right? So what does it mean to be alive right now?
[00:11:38] Speaker A: I think that to be fully alive means, can you come into your heart? Can you come into this moment? Can you feel the preciousness of right now?
And I think our heart is the doorway to our soul. And coming into just feeling the wonderment, the aliveness, where we're not in our busy mind, but we're in the moment. And we can feel that just here I am, I'm alive. And that's actually what I felt as a young child.
I all of a sudden felt just if I were in the moment, I was here, I was okay. And I just felt a comfort, and a comfort of I wasn't alone. I started to call it God. This energy force was with me, and it's with me to this day.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: I can feel this beautiful, that presence felt of God. Is that something that you wish to actually transmit to everyone that's going through end of life experiences.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Yes. I'll also share, though, being with hundreds and hundreds of people at end of life, that that is also what I witnessed. I witnessed so many people before they died, if it wasn't hours before, day or days before, all of a sudden coming into the moment, coming into their heart, coming into their spirit, and saying, this is it. This is what it means to be alive. And then they would die. And it was profound. It was profound to witness, to watch.
And so a big point of my book is, you don't have to wait. You don't have to wait till you're in a grave situation, your end of life. You can choose that right now. You can choose to really feel alive and vibrant and that oneness with, if you call it God, energy, Allah. There's so many words, but you can experience that right now.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Now you've been with people who are on end of life paths, and some of them have had extreme pain and things like that. Is that all lifted at the same time?
[00:13:55] Speaker A: It's interesting, in the hospice field, I would say most people I was with felt a sense of comfort and peace before they passed. So, yes, I think hospice is able to, with the medical staff and nurses, help control if there's pain.
So that's not as common. Now, working in a trauma hospital is a little different story because people can come in and die very suddenly.
But I would say most people I was with in my years as a hospice chaplain, there was a real peace that came through people before they died. That was the norm.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Okay.
How does your holistic approach to emotional and spiritual health help clients find joy, peace, and purpose in their lives?
[00:14:51] Speaker A: When I work with people, we start with just where are you? I think awareness is the first step of all healing. And can you just tune in? Where are you? Are you in your mind? Are you in your body, our bodies in the present moment? And it's so easy in life to live in our mind. Just our mind is running us.
So I start with just tuning in, helping people have some moments of presence, moments of just being here now, because it's when we're in the moment, not in our mind, but in the moment, that peace, that ease, the joy, the aliveness, it's there. It's not in our mind. So that's what I start with many people, starting with helping them create some moments of feeling into being here now and feeling into that peace, and starting to lean into and open into and grow that peace and that love in their being.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Do you find that a lot of people can easily find that peace? Or is there sometimes a bit of an edgy process to get there?
[00:15:58] Speaker A: It depends on the person. But there are often layers of learning how to move out of your busy ego fast chattering mind. It is for all of us. I find it too. I catch myself, or all of a sudden my mind is going. Going, I catch it and come back into the moment.
But then based on if this is new to you, if maybe you have a complicated background, complicated family of origin, it's a process. I think of it as a process of unfolding, of coming inward, of feeling into what is. And it's a practice, and it's a mindful practice that we all can do.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to say that it sounds like a mindfulness practice taken to a different degree, which actually maybe allows for a deeper connection to spirit.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: And I think it's a mindful practice, and there's so many different ways to do it. I mean, it can be coming in with your breath, feeling the coolness of the air coming in over your nostrils as you breathe, in, the warmth as you breathe out, just following your breath. It can be just in this moment, feeling the energy moving in your hands or your feet, even just right now, feeling your feet, whatever's there when you go into drop, into feeling your feet, maybe even your toes, your mind can't think at the same time.
So there's just many different ways to create some moments of coming into your body, coming into the present moment, and just start to feel into. What does that feel like? How does that feel? And your mind will start to slow down. And if you start practicing this, this is something I practice every day. Breathing, meditating. Your body will actually start craving it. You'll start wanting it. You'll just like, oh, I need that stillness, that silence to just regrounding myself.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: It sounds a lot like a form of meditation in some ways.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a form of meditation, absolutely.
But you can also find moments of presence in somatic body movements.
You can find it working with aromatherapy or journaling or there's many different ways to just start to carve out and create some more spaciousness, some more stillness, to just feel into this moment.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: So how does your work as an integrative spiritual consultant and ordained minister and author align with your mission for helping people unfold physically, emotionally and spiritually towards their true calling in life?
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Well, I would say with my path focused on looking inward, reflecting inward. Granted, I've been doing this for most of my life. But when I stepped off the corporate path, I realized I needed to listen. Where am I being called? Where is God? The universe calling me? And it was first to graduate school, master's in theology, divinity. I was clear then. It just kept coming to me about being a chaplain. And then I got ordained. That was part of the path of becoming a chaplain.
I think the core pieces are listening. Listening inwardly to where I'm being called.
And my educational background has helped me to be able to follow these paths. And now I see the resources of how I can help people with my passion of studying this field, integrative medicine, physically, emotionally, spiritually, personally, and then sharing this professionally. It's something I am just very passionate about and love to work with people one on one. And I also do quite a bit of public speaking with groups on this topic.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Excellent.
When you're working with people, do you have any examples you can give of working with a client and the massive changes that they went through and the positive aspects that they got from that? But of course, keep it anonymized and interested to know. Do you have any examples of that you can share?
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Absolutely.
One comes to mind. I mean, there's many, but one in the moment.
Man, executive, done very well, very successful career, made a lot of money, but just starting to feel this kind of gnawing inside, like something was missing. And we met, and on the first visit, I let him in, just a few minutes of a breath exercise, and we just breathed in peace coming through his body, breathed out stress, and we did this. It was actually five minutes. And at the end of the five minutes, there was just this, like, he literally was just like, oh, I'm here. I mean, there was just, like, dropping out of the tension, the tightness, the pulling, how his mind was racing, running to just in the moment, a breath and a deep breath, and it was profound. I've had this with many people.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
And has that man continued to keep up the practice and have positive change?
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Many have, yes. And again, a choice. And that's with my book, everyday awakening. I invite people who read my book. It's just, what are you choosing? How are you choosing to live? It is a conscious choice to keep opening and growing and feeling. And how do you grow love in your heart? These are all choices of how we're living every day.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So it does sound like that your process offers a deeper connection in life, and it is obviously a good doorway for people that probably have no idea about how they can actually even access these spaces?
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Definitely. And I've worked with so many people and so many people through my career, even as a chaplain, where I think language is limiting. Some people, when you come into your heart, you feel this sense of your essence, your soul, and then what's there. Some people might call that connection God. They may call it energy. They might call it true nature. They may call it all a higher power. It's all okay.
What is that for you? And I invite people to just tune in and feel into it and explore what that is for them and how that feels.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: How does your educational background, credentials, and extensive experience in various healing modalities contribute to your compassionate and wholehearted approach to guide clients towards clarity, joy and meaningful transformations?
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Well, I would say a couple of comments. My background, educational background, having a master's in theology and divinity, I was grateful to go to a university where they really pushed us and they pushed us to what do you believe and why? And looking at just the breadth of not only religion, but spirituality, I think about spirituality, what gives you meaning and really helping you open into what is that for you? What do you believe? Terms like, I'll just share religious pluralism. I mean, there's just so many different paths. And can that be okay? The path of being ecumenical, open, inclusive, and learning, that was significant.
So my educational background is super helpful with my clients, but also trained and certified in a range of healing modalities, has been invaluable. If I'm working with someone, for example, and they have some really deep seated sadness or anger, working with them with, for example, the modality tapping, teaching people how to move the energy out of your body, or I'm trained in energy healing or chigong healing. So based on what someone's working with, helping share skills, teaching skills of how to find that deep grounding and that deep balance.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Over time, this would have all changed your modality understanding, although I should say, even your cosmology of life.
What do you believe the purpose of life is?
[00:24:52] Speaker A: I think a distillation of why we're here is to be alive, to keep opening and growing. And it's a choice, I'm sure every one of us listening to everyone listening to this right now, you know, people that are like, no, this is life, or, I'm not doing any more work, or this is it.
Just choice. Do you want to keep? I mean, I feel like, oh, there's so much you have to learn. It's so exciting about being alive. But one distillation is, I think the reason we're here is to learn to love. I think it's love. I think when we die, it's not an end. I think what we take with us is our ability to love.
And how can you keep growing love? And it starts with loving ourselves.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah, that's definitely key. If you don't love yourself, then you can't really express that towards others appropriately.
Yeah.
Is there any other questions you think I should ask you that I didn't ask you now?
[00:25:51] Speaker A: These are great questions. Thank you.
The only other comment that comes in the moment this year is, I think, living and feeling fully, vibrantly alive is, I would say, multidimensional. That, yes, we use our mind, obviously, for work, for planning, for organizing, but you can be deeply present and carry that deep groundedness, that deep presence in the moment in your being and access your mind if you need to, and live on a multi dimensionally. I think that's what really being fully alive is. It's living multi dimensionally on all these levels at the same time.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: Nice.
So, Catherine, as you've had a lot of experiences with people at their point of crossing over, and I was going to ask you, because that's quite a liminal space. And so sometimes spirits come through, in my experience, as concierges of people taking them across to the other side, have you witnessed anything or experienced the presences of anything like that, or angels that have appeared? Because that's quite common for a lot of people.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: I have, and I did write about this in my book, years as a hospice chaplain, I was with people dying every day.
It was common that after someone passed on, within days to a week, many people came back to see me in the middle of the night. I would wake up. It's like there would be outline of their face, their body, and they would kind of nod at me, like, thanking me, and, like, be gone.
And it was just, for me, a deep knowing that death is not an end, that our spirit goes on. I can't say a lot more, but I felt it. I've seen it with people at their deathbed. I've seen their spirit leave their body. I've seen angels. So I actually even had to put up a boundary. And I finally had to put the boundary saying, at night, you cannot come within 20ft of my bed and wake me up. It was just like, too much.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Yeah. They always seem to turn up at 03:00 a.m. And it's like, what are you doing here now?
[00:28:12] Speaker A: Right?
And then it was just patients who, deeply spiritual, really open to the other side, where I might say, yeah, hey, you come and say hello when you pass over.
But every daily I see spirits. It's part of my life. It's just a reality. It is. It's a blessing.
And talking about, I mentioned multidimensional living. This is what I mean by multidimensional living. And that is you're present in your heart. You're really here and grounded, and you might use your mind to access a thought or idea in the same hand. I'm looking in the room and I see spirits over in the corner. It's like I'm seeing on all these levels in the moment. And this is possible living on these multidimensional levels for all of us. That's what it means, really. Fully alive.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I believe that too. I see that the world that we live in can be quite limiting if you choose, like the materialist sort of understanding. But as soon as you step beyond that and accept spirit into your life and the understanding that we are living basically in a fishbowl of spirits, and you take the filters off your eyes, then you can see everything. You can actually feel presences, smell spirits too. And sometimes they'll, like, I've even experienced them come and touch me on the foot and things like that. It's quite od, but it's normal because they want to make contact with you too.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's very normal. And I think all of us have these gifts if it's clairvoyance. Claire audience Claire sentient some people can see, some people sensing, some people shared. I share this, I believe, in my book, where when I worked at Hennepin County Medical center, our trauma hospital, and I did a lot of night shifts, and literally the helicopter would go over our house. We live in Minneapolis. Then my pager would go off and then I'd have 15 minutes to arrive. Often it was in the emergency room. And it'd be usually for some horrific death or accident and very sacred work. And then let's say it'd be two or three in the morning, and I would go back to my car to go back home, be on call till eight because they didn't have a room for us. And I sometimes would go to my car and I would think, okay, I'm ready to be done for the night. That was a lot. And I would literally hear, you're done.
Or I'd hear you have one more call. So that's an example of audience. But we all have these gifts. If you can cultivate more sense of presence where you can feel into your heart and soul, it's all there, definitely.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Now, you said angels. Can you tell us more about your contact with angels?
[00:31:05] Speaker A: Well, I've seen so many angels hovering over people, which was just, wow, a gift. I'll share one story.
I did the evening shift again at our trauma hospital, and I was with a man suddenly dying. It was really a lot, very sacred, but it was just a lot happening that night. And then I went home and I got back into bed. And maybe, I don't know, an hour or two after I'd fallen asleep, I opened my eyes, and there was this angel hovering across my whole body from head to toe. Golden angel. And then it just, like, went through my body. And you would think people would be like, right. But it was so peaceful. It was just like.
And I really came to me that I believe this was this man's angel coming to thank me. It was just beautiful and peaceful and calming.
But I believe we all have, all of us angels and archangels around us. And I invite in my private practice people to communicate with their angels and ask their angels for help, for guidance, wisdom.
It's there.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: It's literally their job.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Right?
You have to ask.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. They can't ask without asking. That's it. That's literally.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: And every day before I start my meetings, I center and feeling this sense of energy and oneness with God. I call in Archangel, Raphael, Michael, Uriel. I call in a bunch of angels to just surround me, give me guidance. I do this every day.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Brilliant. Brilliant. Wow, that's definitely connected. I love the sound of.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: I just for people to open up to. What do you feel or experience or even starting with that sense of awe, that sense of wonder where time kind of stops. I guess most people have had that experience. And maybe it's all of a sudden the wind coming through the trees or the sun setting where the time stops, and it's just a magical feeling in the moment, just feeling that preciousness. That's what I mean by just that preciousness of life and that oneness with being alive, oneness with the universe, feeling into that and growing that beautiful.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Is there any parting words that you'd like to offer to people that are listening, who are having trouble in their lives and want to seek that sort of peace and that connectedness and that love?
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Well, I'll shout out about my book everyday awakening. It's on Amazon, Barnes and noble. It's all over. If you find this talk interesting.
But I would just invite the people listening to just lean into, open into how are you living today?
Are you finding and experiencing some moments of peace and ease and presence?
Just noticing? Where are you? Are you in your mind all day? Can you have some moments, even if it's getting outside and going for a walk or breath exercise?
I'll share one more thing that comes to me. An exercise that I've done for 20 some years, really helpful to me. It actually comes out of St. Ignatius of Loyola spiritual exercises from the 17th, 18th century, is just asking yourself two questions at the end of the day. What today has been life giving? What's given you life and sense of peace? And what second question has been depleting? What's taken life away?
And I'll tell you, if you just ask those two questions, what's been life giving? What's taken life away? And you do that every day for a week or two. You'll start to see patterns. You'll start to see who's really drawn into supporting you and being in your life and who isn't. So that's just one mini exercise of tuning in, of how are you living? And I think life is about choosing to grow the good and grow the peace. And I know when life can be messy and hard. I understand that. And I know it takes strength and courage to really want to keep learning and growing.
But I believe we can all heal. We can. And my wish for everyone hearing this is just deep healing and peace for everyone.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Catherine, for your time and coming on to supernormalized and sharing your understanding of mindfulness and deep self love and connectedness. I appreciate that.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Yeah, great to meet you. Thank you so much. Lovely to meet you.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Lovely to meet you, too. All right, have a really good day.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: Thank you. You, too.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: Bye for now.
Well, that was an excellent show, and we found some really good ground there on the understanding and connection to the understanding of multidimensionality and how that actually plays out in everyday life for people. And I hope you've enjoyed the show. I enjoyed recording it, and I'll enjoy seeing how it goes with people, too, because it's wonderful to have somebody on that actually understands and is deeply connected like Catherine is. So if you enjoyed the show, too, please reach out to Catherine and tell her you enjoyed the show. And look out for a book, too. And if you have enjoyed the show, please share it to somebody that you know that would actually benefit from hearing this. And please get on your podcast app if you haven't as yet, and press those five stars. I'd really appreciate it, and it will help other people to find conversations that I think are worth sharing. And until next episode, bye. For now.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: I do better.
