Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The love for each other when we tell each other, hey, you're screwing up, it's still love.
The skill around expressing that hard love, that's something, that's another level, right, that we all have to work on.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Welcome to supernormalize, the podcast, where we challenge the conventional break boundaries and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me, CJ Barnaby, in the liminalist space to explore less charted realms of existence and to unravel the mysteries of life. Experience. Each episode, I'm blessed with the opportunity to talk to regular people from across the world, where they openly share their understanding and wisdom in service to others. If you're looking to upgrade your life, you've come to the right place. Be sure to like and subscribe, and I'll bring you great transforming conversations each week. My treasured viewers and listeners. If you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at supernormalized proton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and unusual, what it really is completely normal.
Today on supernormalize, we have my new good friend Zach, who has been through an extreme change of life which he did not expect himself. Now, I'll outline that Zach was actually a former ayahuasca shaman for 14 years, helping lots of people with plant medicines. He was led into that life from a search that he was doing himself for a sense of satisfaction in his life. And he started to discover that with his work with the Yoyoshka medicine. And then he went through a great change when Christ, Jesus Christ appeared for him and turned his life in a completely different direction. So today's talk is about that and what happened for him and the meaning that it gave to his life. So I really enjoyed talking with Zack and hearing his understanding and where he is, and he just grounds his understanding so beautifully and I shares so openly, and I really appreciated his vulnerability in this episode. So please enjoy.
Welcome to supernormalize, Zach.
Zach has a very interesting story for us. When we first got in contact, we were talking about the idea of talking around his work as an ayahuasca shaman of 14 years. And then he had a major event that change that in another direction completely that by the sound of it, he didn't even expect himself. So I think this is going to be one of those stories that is going to open people's eyes to different ways to see the world. So welcome to supernormal is Zach.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Thank you, thank you. Thank you for having me. And I was half expecting you to cancel this because of what had happened to me. So thank you for having me on.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Well, like, I believe this type of consciousness is coming through, and I think what's happened to you is a perfect example of that. So, Zach, can you give us some outline as to your life story leading up to this event?
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Sure.
I'm actually going to start at the beginning of my life because it's relevant in the sense that I was raised very secular.
My first exposure to any spirituality was when I lived on the road, but indian reservation in South Dakota, the Lakota Sioux. And so my family was very involved in working with the Lakota Sioux, going to ceremonies, sundances and that sort of thing. Had my first spiritual experience in ceremony. At the age of like eleven or so, I saw spirits in a healing ceremony. A Lakota healing ceremony. To be clear, Lakota do not use any plant medicines.
Traditionally, there has been some mixing of the peyote or the usage of peyote, but that's not a traditional, I should say not a tradition of the Lakota Sioux until more recently, and then was living a very secular life through my teens and ended up becoming a stockbroker and then getting depressed. And then that's when once I was depressed and couldn't figure out what was going on, I had reached a pretty decent level of material success. That's when I started searching and I started doing self help stuff.
Went to some of those was it. It's like est seminars, the weekend seminars, workshops, and just kept searching, searching, searching, and nothing seemed to work. I had some success or progress when I went to Vipassana ten day meditation retreat, or a couple of those, actually. And then I found out about ayahuasca.
Once I read an article in National Geographic, once I finished reading that particular article, I was like, I'm going to go do that.
Maybe that can help my depression. My existential angst, I guess, is the way to say it.
And so in 2009 I did.
And by mid 2010, I had quit my job as a stockbroker and moved to Peru full time.
Met my teacher and opened a retreat center called La Familia Medicina in 2011, and ran retreats with my teacher until mid 2014.
Then I was a maestro, or got the title of maestro from 2014, or actually 2013 is when I got the title. But I left Peru in mid 2014, did some underground ayahuasca retreats and ceremonies in the US, and then moved to Guatemala for a couple of years, and then came back to the US after Covid or during COVID and continued doing ayahuasca retreats as my profession for 14 years straight.
And this, I guess it was May when we first talked, right? We first set the. You and I first set an appointment to do this podcast. At that point, I was on my way from the US. I had a stopover in Colombia for a month before I was heading to Peru for six months, wherein I was going to do six retreats a week long each in Peru at a retreat center. I was going to facilitate that along with one of my original teachers.
What happened was about four weeks prior. Yeah, about four weeks prior to my landing date into Peru, I started just feeling awful from an emotional standpoint and just a state of being standpoint.
Anytime I thought about doing ayahuasca, any time I thought about the retreat, anytime I thought about going to Peru, it was just this huge, ugh, I don't want to do that. Huge amounts of dread and actually getting into the suicidal ideation place, which.
Yeah. And I couldn't. I was like, what is going on that I've been so excited about this? I had, it felt like it was.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Your life path, right?
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Well, it was my life path, and I'd been doing it for 14 years. And I was going back to Peru where I had studied the same village, the same group of people, and we were going to get together again. We're going to. The band was getting together again and we were going to put on a bunch of retreats.
And I was like, I just couldn't figure out what was going on. And it was so bad that the people around me who I was living in kind of a co living situation in Colombia.
So I knew the people. We were new friends, but we weren't good friends. And they noticed there was something wrong with me. They're like, Zach, are you?
It was that bad that I was kind of giving off this really funky energy?
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: And after about a week of that, I woke up one morning, I was completely awake.
I hadn't done any substances whatsoever.
And bam, I'm lying in bed. So I'm totally awake, still in bed.
Bam.
Jesus Christ comes and he tells me, stop doing all shamanic practices, all new age practices, immediately.
These practices, shamanism, working with spirits, they are distracting you from what? You need to be focusing on Zach. You need to be focused on me. Jesus Christ.
And I was, my response was kind of like, oh, oh, oh. So it was shocking and a deep understanding and a deep knowing that I've never experienced before.
In addition to that, he went on to say, look, in shamanism, you're working with spirits. And frankly, when you do oracle cards and pendulum and this energy works. I also worked with Alberto Vildo and the four wind Society, their energy medicine program, and did that type of healing as well.
And what Christ told me was, look, you're working with these spirits, and spirits are like people, you don't know who to trust.
You only can trust me. Jesus Christ and spirits are more powerful than humans, and so they're dangerous in that sense.
If you're going to do this work, which I'm not, I've decided not to do work directly with me, God, Jesus Christ, and then I will delegate which spirits to work with, if that makes sense.
So that's what happened to, in a nutshell. And their realizations continued and continue now to this day.
And we can get into that in a second if you like. But after this big event, I felt great. I was like, wow, it was really fantastic.
Particularly first couple of days, I did not know what to do with it. I called one of my good friends who, you know, Michael Peterson. You did a podcast with Michael Peterson? Yeah. And he was an ex student of mine, and he went through the training program. I trained him, and now I view him as a contemporary, not a student any longer. Yeah.
And I respect him greatly. So I talked to him about what happened, and he has a very skilled way. He's a coach, and he has a very skilled way of questioning, and he was probing me to see if there was something else in my life that was funky, that that could be stimulating this experience. And at the end of that conversation, he was like, well, congratulations, man.
You just met Christ. And, you know, he couldn't find any holes in my story, so to speak. And that was super, super helpful because he's an ayahuasca shaman as well. And the hard part then was while one was canceling the retreats, because I knew, I was just like, I cannot go and put on ayahuasca retreats when I do not agree with this anymore. I literally don't agree with it, and I don't want to do it. For those who don't know, and we're looking at ayahuasca retreats, make sure your shaman wants to do it.
Little safety tip, because if they don't, it's a problem. And so that was a little tough because I knew I would be disappointing some people, but that was kind of low on my list of concerns.
The hardest part was working through my identity, being wrapped up with being a shaman.
I've been doing it for 14 years, everybody associated with me as being an ayahuasca shaman and a teacher and all of these things. And I literally, I gave my life, or I continue on a daily basis, give my life to Jesus Christ.
It's no longer about me at all, and that identity is no longer there.
It was a little hard in those first few days, telling the first few people, but subsequently it's cleared out.
That's the story in that show. And I can ramble on, but I was going to hand it back over to you if you had some questions.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. I was going to roll back to when you said you were searching, searching, searching. What were you searching for at that time?
[00:15:49] Speaker A: You mean when prior to ayahuasca? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meaning, like I said, I had reached a socioeconomic level that a majority of people, I would say, most people would say you made it. Right. Making several hundred thousand dollars a year. Houses, travel, cool cars.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, anything you want in life, you've got it.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. Except for that.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Meaning satisfaction.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Deep meaning satisfaction. Exactly.
And yeah, like I said, I'd started going to workshops, NLP kind of stuff.
Then I found vipassana, which was actually quite helpful.
Then ayahuasca, and then ayahuasca was this big change, right? The huge shift in life. And I, so much so that I quit my job and went and studied to be a shaman.
One thing I want to point out, though, while the absolute agonizing pain that I experienced while I was still a stockbroker and had made that shift over to ayahuasca, that didn't stop the seeking.
I was not only.
It was always this, okay, I got to do more diets. Diettas are another shamanic practice, along with ayahuasca you might be familiar with, do more retreats, more dietas. And then I was going for this enlightenment thing, and it's a hamster wheel, in my experience. And so the satisfaction was not solved by ayahuasca. And this is since becoming a Christian. It's such a relief. I'm done. I have given myself to Christ.
There is nothing more to do.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: So that, and it's a very. You've got to say that searching, that we're still continually going that search for enlightenment. What did enlightenment mean to you at that time, exactly?
[00:18:12] Speaker A: No, none of us have any fucking idea. I hope I can use f bombs.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Yeah, you can.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Oh, good. Because we don't. That's the crazy part. And I get animated about this because it's like I'm like, oh, what was I trying to do? It was always something off in the future. And this is a really important point that I've learned about Christianity.
Almost every other religion, spiritual lineage, there's always like, I'm doing good things or I'm doing practices to get to enlightenment.
Christianity through Christ, giving your life to Christ, handing it over, submitting 100% to Christ.
It's through that that Christ comes through and provides the satisfaction. There are no deeds or practices to do. And it's through that what they call filling your ones or having oneself being filled with the Holy Spirit, through that process of handing one's life over to Christ, that one's behavior changes such that you end up doing things just because it's natural, it's completely opposite of those other spiritual pathways.
And I will be the first to say, as these words come out of my mouth, I don't expect people to understand it. And the only way I have been able to understand it is through this experience. And it's amazing how, I don't get how people who try to proselytize Christianity, if they're successful at all, that's amazing because without that experience that I had, I wouldn't have the understanding that I now have around Christianity. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like the experience. Yeah.
And so I'm really happy to talk to people about my new understanding of Christianity because there is something that has happened through this experience. And at the same time, I have no expectations of people going, oh, wow, let's go be Christian now.
I'm stoked if that happens, but I don't think I keep my expectations in check on that point.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: So you would say that the experience that you've had is actually very personal and that people actually need to have their own personal experience of the Christ consciousness themselves to be able to really come to it in an authentic way.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Yes. And that may be, that may not be true for everyone. Right. Some people may go down that intellectual, logical road and then get the experience afterwards. So I'm not saying that it's a requirement by any means, because I don't know.
Also, you use the word Christ consciousness.
That's a. Well, I don't know. Can you define what Christ consciousness is?
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Okay. For me, Christ consciousness is relying on the experience of God in everything continually such that the guidance comes directly from Christ.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Okay, that's, yeah, that's interesting. So.
And the reason I stop on that point is to make it very clear the term Christ consciousness is kind of a new age term and it's not a christian term.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm using it as a brief.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: I've become, okay. Okay. Because I've become, I've become, and this is shocking for me, I have become a fundamentalist evangelical Christian through this experience.
That being said, I think my language and some, I've spoken to some other friends who were part of my old community and they did say, wow, yeah, you're fundamentalists. And the way you're coming across is different than what they've experienced with other.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Fundamentalist christians because you're grounding.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: But I wanted to.
I hope so.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: That's what I'm hearing.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: So, yeah, well, and I just want to delineate the Christ consciousness idea from what, make sure the language is clear. And I think language is a problem when we get, when we have the clash of the fundamentalists and the kind of, for lack of a better term, new age or eastern philosophies. Because, for example, for example, the term christians will be, oh, that's demonic. And it's whatever practice that's demonic. And it's like, well, what they really mean is that that practice is going to be working with spirits or demigods.
And the reason it's demonic or scary to a Christian is we don't know as humans whether or not those spirits or demigods are truly on the side of truth or nothing.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: And so that's, but that word demonic is like, it's kind of like sin, when sin, all it is is a mistake. Right. This is. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: So you've gone through this, searching through, throughout your life, really. I mean, that's probably been a part of all of your life by the sound of it. Um. Did you actually have any christian framework before any of this?
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Well, and this is interesting. Um, yes. But under the Christ consciousness kind of approach.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Where, where it's like, you know, course of miracles. Um, Richard Rohr, where it's very like, well, yeah, Christianity has this view and all these other spiritual paths are also true. Right. So we could. It's very inclusive from the ultimate truth standpoint.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: And what I discovered after this experience is.
No.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: What do you mean by no?
[00:25:23] Speaker A: Sorry. I mean, no. It's like, there's one. There is in, in my experience, my view, and I confidently say that's no, there's one truth one way, and that's Jesus Christ.
And that's startling to people, I understand, to some people.
And if you'll permit me, I'll take a step back and point to where. Because when I came out of the experience, that was one of my, like, well, what's what.
I was trying to discern what's going on. And then I looked at the Bible, and this is another language thing that the christians always put. It says in the Bible this, it says in the Bible that. And for most people, it's like, well, why do we care? Why is this book so important, other than it being foundational to Christianity? But there's one thing that I think a majority of people, and maybe even christians, don't understand.
The reason the Bible is so authoritative is that there have been several hundred prophecies in the Old Testament that actually happened in the New Testament that came true, and the prophecies continue to come true.
And so after this experience, I started looking at the Bible, and I was like, oh, this is serious stuff.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah, new eyes. You've got new eyes upon.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And a new under. Being able to understand it. I wasn't able to understand it previously. And so when I started looking into the Bible, it's very clear.
One, there's only one God, and at the same time there are demo demigods. There were. So there's God. Yahweh has had a council of demigods, and the council had governance over other parts of the world, and Yahweh was focused on the jewish tRibe.
But there was a rebellion in it amongst the council and the demigods.
And one of the first rebellions was the snake coming to Adam and Eve.
That was one of his angels.
His crew decided to mess around. That was the first rebellion. Then there's been subsequent spiritual rebellions.
This is where, when I found out about this, I was like, oh, this is why we have the hindu cosmology with all these different deities.
And even HinDuism talks about how all the deities are not the big BRaHma. Right.
And notice in Hinduism that Brahma is not a big deal. Well, guess what? Brahma is Yahweh. And they've revolt. Revolted against Yahweh, is what I've come to speculate. I don't know for sure, but the point being. Okay, so I've come to the point, post this experience, to look at the Bible as authoritative and the guidance for my life. So if I experience something and I wonder, is that truth or not truth, or is that something? So that action or that behavior, or I would go back to scripture to see how does it line up. Does that make sense?
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it does.
Just going back to your experience when it actually happened, you say you're completely awake, completely straight, and he appeared in the room, not as a vision, not as a vision. Okay.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: No, no, it was.
And this is. This is the ineffable part.
It was a presence and it was like messages.
Direct conversation with. Yeah, direct. And it was, again, it was, oh, oh, oh. With just understanding at a deeper level than I've ever experienced, just knowing. It's like truth. Just like, boom, boom, boom.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: I know what you mean.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Which is consistent with my experience as a shaman. So shamans, there tends to be in society, a lot of emphasis on, well, can you see auras or can you.
The visual phenomenon, regardless if they're visual phenomena, regardless of whether there's medicine or substances being used or not, there's a whole.
That guy can see auras and it's like, ooh.
However, there's a whole. There are other gifts. Right. And mine tended to be like, the somatic and then, and just intuitive messages coming through in a very clear way. So I think that's. Was it. Is it clairvoyance? No, clairvoyance is when you can see clairsentience, I think.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: Clairsentience. Yeah, I think so.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Hey, everyone, I'm excited to share that you can now support the show on Patreon. Go to patreon.com supernormalized. Your contributions help me to create even more amazing content. Please check out the link below in the show notes and join our community and unlock exclusive perks. Thank you so much for your support.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, so that was. So it was consistent, was received.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Okay. And when this was happening for you at that moment, um, uh. And it, did it feel like it actually cleared out all of your misunderstandings instantly misunderstandings about yourself and your life.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: In the.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Now I've just got to. I should frame it. So why, why I asked that is because I was actually, when I was 19 years old, I was in the Philippines, and I was going through a rough time, and I was. I had been held up by on the street at gunpoint. And it put spun me into a point of depression. I actually felt suicidal and I was going to considering taking my life. I was so depressed. I've felt like I was alone and everything was wrong. And I hit this really, like, severely depressed point at about.
Around about 01:00 a.m. or 02:00 a.m. in the morning. One night when I was up just considering my life. And at that point, I'd made the decision I was going to take my life the next day.
And at that instant that I'd made that decision, the room I was in suddenly was just like, first of all.
All of the horrible feelings I was going through. And the depression instantly lifted. It was gone in a blink, and the room lit up like everything was filled with light.
And then this commanding voice just popped in and said directly into me, you are extremely important.
And in that moment, everything was erased. And I knew that, that that was it. I didn't have to worry about things anymore. And I don't know what that was, but it was definitely a very positive thing, because it changed me towards the positive instantly. And from then on, my life flowed in a really great way, really quickly. So.
So, yes, I was asking around that. Did it erase all of your misunderstandings of yourself at that time?
[00:33:57] Speaker A: Yes, it was very much, ah, okay, I don't have to do anything anymore. Everything will be taken care of.
Yeah. Just it is that proverbial full surrender that I think other people talk about and I imagine, well, I don't know, you may or may not agree, but it's a problem. Things still come up. Right. So there are some neural pathways that still start to get worried about x, y, or z. And it's like, then it's a continual remembrance, oh, no, just trust in God. Focus on Christ. Trust in God. And then it's like, back, you know? So, yes, I would agree with that. And again, the seeking is done. Like, I don't. That was.
That was the amazing part. I was like, oh, I'm not going to say I'm enlightened, because I don't think I am. I don't even know what that is. And I'm just very satisfied with where I'm at spiritually.
I'm just like, okay, cool. You know, and I get excited when I start talking about the Bible, as you just saw, which is fun, but may not be fun for everyone, but, yeah. And then in terms of life, subsequently, I stayed in. I'm still in Columbia right now.
I've been doing, for the past couple of years, the combination of shamanism and being a financial advisor, which is because there's some personal stuff there. I got divorced, or in the process of divorce, and so my ex wife has continued, took the business, the retreat business. And so I've had to kind of, like, start on. Start things over again.
But the releasing of the shamanism and all of the new age practices and so forth have opened up some new opportunities.
Life is good, you know, I'm able to really focus on this other business, and I'm happy.
It just occurred to me, as I'm saying this, all those other practices, I used to spend a 2 hours a day doing, oh, I had to do my oracle cards every day and now it's just read, read the Bible, pray and meditate a little bit. Do that a little bit in the morning, a little bit at night.
Done.
That's nice.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: You sound like you've got great peace.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: I do. It's fantastic. And I happen to be in a very peaceful place too. So physically.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: So you've got an instruction from the Bible as well as a part of your understanding. Do you know where we are in history then according to your understanding of the Bible?
[00:37:20] Speaker A: Well that's a tricky question if you're talking about the end of days thing because the Bible does say very clearly that we are. No one will know. Even Jesus said he didn't know when that exactly would happen. That being said, it seems that we're pretty damn close to the end of day. And it's funny, I just started reading revelation this week and it's a, you know, challenging part of the Bible for sure.
And yeah, I mean it were, what are some newer things that have been prophesied that came true? One of the big ones was the formation of Israel but that was back in the, what, 4850? But the more recent is the fact that Israel, everyone hates Israel, which is prophesied. Everyone's pissed off at Israel. And then also Iran and Russia are supposed to attack Israel and that's going to be one of the last things before the, the whole end of days things happens.
To be fair, I am very new so my, some of my knowledge on the details might be a little bit, I will say iffy but very definitely not exact. I'm not, I'm not to that point yet.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: That's okay. Now it's just questioning to see where you are with your intuition on it as well because. Yeah, I agree with that too.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
And as a Christian we're not supposed to spend a lot of time thinking about.
So yes, I see that it looks and feels like we're damn close and it, you know, if there's one thing that I think that humans relative, that the bible and the stories in the Bible have gotten off is this concept of time because I don't know that God really can box things in time like the seven days of creation and that sort of thing and the end of days because when Christ was alive everyone thought what he was saying was going to happen very quickly.
It was an apocalyptic cult Christianity, and 2000 years later and it still hasn't happened as far as we know.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
So what are you doing with your new understanding of Jesus and your life. How are you helping people with this understanding?
Hello?
[00:40:15] Speaker A: Okay, well, this happened literally. Hello? Yes. Are we back? This happened literally two months ago.
And so first I'm being very careful about going out and shouting from the rooftops. I know that from my experience post ayahuasca, I did that around ayahuasca and got some very challenging responses.
I tried to proselyze ayahuasca, post that experience. And so at this moment, I'm just studying and doing my daily practices, grounding. I am talking to close friends, but at the same time, it's interesting. Some friends don't want to hear it, right. The christian church and other christians have done a wonderful job of pissing people off. And I think it's just the human condition that's not right. I think it's just normal that humans, when they discover something, they try to convince everyone else that they should do it too. And that is often not done in a very skillful way. And I think that christians in the christian church have done exactly that.
So when I do have conversations, I do my best to share what happened, share some of what I've learned, and at the same time, respecting people who clearly don't want to listen. Um, so that's what I'm doing currently going forward. I mean, I don't know. I, when I go back to the United States, I'm excited to find a church and get involved in the church community because right now I'm in, in Columbia.
I've gone to church here. My Spanish is pretty good, but not good enough to go to church service and fully get into it.
So, yeah, I've got some growth in the, in the christian faith to look forward to. Christian faith and community, I should say, and to look forward to.
I'm hoping at some point that maybe I can be kind of a sane voice in terms of the christian example, because like I said, there's, they've got a bad rep. Christianity. Christianity needs a rebranding is what needs to happen.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: What would that look like, do you think?
[00:43:00] Speaker A: Just less judgment in their language. There's an energy, particularly around things like sexuality and using the words like sin, and that's an abomination.
Hold on. I mean, premarital sex in the Bible is a sin.
I am guilty of that sin, and so how can I.
And I've done some, I'm pretty sure what would be called sexually immoral things.
And so all this stuff is a sentence.
And there are other sins as well that we have all done and this hyper focus on sexuality, the way the christian church and other hardcore christians have been focused on it, it's just.
It's funky and it's uncomfortable and unnecessary. Right.
We can approach it. This whole buzzword of tolerance or intolerance.
Someone pointed out that tolerance is me having an opinion or a belief that's different from yours. We get together, we talk about it, and at the end of the conversation, if we still disagree, we're still friends. Or we can still.
There's no anger there. There's no judgment there. It's just like, yeah, I believe in Christ. Oh, you believe in you. You're on the buddhist path.
You want to hear about my path? Yeah. You want to hear about my path? Yeah. Okay. Talk about it. Well, I disagree with your path.
All right? You're still cool, you know?
You know, same thing. Like, you've probably had premarital sex, my.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: Friend CJ, and I. I can guarantee I do.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: That's. Yeah. And I look back at my premarital sex experiences, and I can now see why it's a sin. It causes all kinds of emotional issues.
Emotional issues. Before, I should have had those emotional, you know, conflicts on one of the pregnancies, in some cases disease.
And then there's an over the objectification or sexualization of women. I can see all of that in my past, and I see how that's a sin, and I see how that kind of behavior separates me from God.
So I get to stop, and nothing. I get to choose through free will, whether, right now, I'm telling you, I'm not going to have premarital sex anymore.
And if I do it, I have to go. Ugh. Because I've had that feeling of, uh, before. After having sex with somebody and not knowing why, right? And not knowing now I know that that feeling of, uh, is because I've separated from God. I've done something God doesn't like. He doesn't hate me for it. He's just like, hey, kid. Because we're all children. Hey, kid. You screwed up again. Don't do that.
I don't want to piss off my dad.
That sucks. So I gotta. All right, you're right.
I'm sorry, dad.
I'm gonna do my best to do better going forward. And that's what Christianity is all about. It's like, it's nothing.
There's a whole myth around, oh, all you have to do is go and confess your sins, and then you're forgiven, and then you can do it again. It's like, no, you want to avoid those sins. And we're human, we're flawed, therefore we will sin or make mistakes. But when we make mistakes, we have to say, we have to own it, own the mistake. I'm sorry.
I'm going to do my best to do better going forward.
So that's a very different conversation than you, sinner, you must repent. That's a different conversation. So I hope that I can help change that conversation or those conversations.
[00:47:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that would be a wonderful thing.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:40] Speaker B: What message do you think Jesus Christ has for us now in our lives and for everyone?
[00:47:52] Speaker A: Well, I mean, he is so clear in the Bible.
Number one, love God above all else.
Number two, love thy neighbor as you would yourself.
Very clear.
And I think people get confused as to what love means.
And this goes back to early part of the conversation, is like a parent loves their child and says, hey, don't touch the stove. That stove is hot, it's going to hurt.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: You.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Kid touches it first time, like, okay, okay, keep touching it, I'm gonna get pissed.
Right? So, but that's, that's my point is, is the love for each other, when we tell each other, hey, you're screwing up, it's still love.
The skill around expressing that hard love, that's something, that's another level, right? That we all have to work on.
Does that make sense?
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Makes sense to me. That's very clear.
[00:49:10] Speaker A: Very clear.
[00:49:12] Speaker B: So, Zach, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Is there any way you'd like to point people to help them along in their path or even contact you and talk to you about your experiences or.
Because, I mean, you're not who you are before, so I can't say, go to his website.
[00:49:30] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. That's very interesting.
Oh, man, that is. Well, I would say yes, yes.
If based on this conversation, one has a renewed interest in Christianity, I would really suggest people go and look at the Bible and try to get a greater understanding as a Bible as a whole.
What is the Bible trying to tell us and really understand it? Because one of my big frustrations with Christians prior to this experience, and I still would have this, I still have this frustration, is when they start talking about other spiritual paths.
It is so clear in those conversations that they have no idea about these other spiritual paths. Like Buddhism. Like, I've done a deep study of Buddhism, that was part of my path. And in my conversations with other christians, within two minutes, I know they have no idea what they're talking about when they refer to Buddhism, our society as a whole, has done the same thing about Christianity. It's just that Christianity has been in our backyard. We think we know and we need to separate the Bible.
What the Bible says, soup to nuts, not just New Testament, but soup to nuts from what the church says or has done, because the church has been very guilty of some awful things and what christians do and say because they're oftentimes pretty unskillful. So I would say the understanding of the Bible really, I mean, like, really giving it a shot before throwing rocks at it and other christians. And then one of my favorite pastors, he has passed now is Timothy. Timothy Keller.
Fantastic. He does a really good job of bringing forth the Bible as the Bible is written and in a compassionate, clear way without compromising the integrity of what the Bible is saying, if that makes sense. Where I think. I used to be a big fan of Richard Rohr, and I think Richard Rohr has compromise what the Bible is saying now, given my new experience, my new understanding.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:52:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:23] Speaker B: So what's in store for you next, do you think? Zach? I mean. Yeah.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I. People do want to reach out to me if they need some help with your financial advice.
I'm a financial advisor and you can find me on LinkedIn at Zach Poitra.
But, yeah, I'm just really going to focus on grounding in my faith and learning, continuing to learn, because again, I'm totally at the beginning of this journey with Christ and not being a teacher anymore. That was. We never got into that point, which is I was kind of getting. No, I was getting off on the attention and the quasi rock star status that an ayahuasca shaman has. And I think.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's fairly pervasive in the ayahuasca world. And I would say the new age world in general. It's very self focused, whether or not you're in front of the room or a participant. But that's a much larger podcast.
Another 2 hours, I think, would be. Would cover it.
[00:53:44] Speaker B: Okay.
We'll definitely have to do another one then. That's. That'll be great.
[00:53:49] Speaker A: I'm down if. If you are.
[00:53:51] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:53:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And this, you know, this is my first time talking about all of this, so.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: Well, I thank you for being so vulnerable. You know, I appreciate your vulnerability and being so open about it. I mean, I can tell you still raw in your experience, and it's wonderful that you've shared so much. It's. I really appreciate it.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:54:16] Speaker B: All right, well, I'll say goodbye to the listeners. And, yeah, I look forward to talking to you again soon.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. It was. It was fun, and if we do it again, I'm sure it'll be fun again. All right, and thank you, everyone, for listening.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Okay, I'll just say goodbye to listeners. Just one sec.
I really appreciated the sharing that Zach brought to today's episode and the understanding of Christ consciousness. Actually, I should say that the way he says it, the understanding of Jesus Christ and what that means to him in his life, and it's apparent that he's gone through a great change, and it's really, really helped him to understand and to ground in satisfaction in life, and he wishes to share that to the world. And that came through in this episode. If you really enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe.
And if you can and you think somebody else needs to hear this message and they need to hear it now, please share this episode directly to them. That'd be very appreciated. More ears upon the episode will really help a lot. And, yeah, if you want to reach out to Zach. Zach Poitra. Poitre at.
No, sorry, Poitra at LinkedIn. You got to find him there. He's a financial advisor as well.
But, yeah, he'd be willing to talk to you about his experience, too, if you like. And, yeah, thank you so much for listening. And if you've enjoyed today's episode, listen to the next one. I'm sure you'll enjoy it, too. All right, bye for now.
