Is Bigfoot Connected to Human Consciousness with Ron Meyer?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: On this episode I talk with Ronald C. Meier, a filmmaker, author, paleontology researcher, behavioral Cybernetics researcher and 5th degree Aikido Black Belt. Ron's work brings together evidence, personal experience, storytelling and spiritual inquiry through films and books about Bigfoot, UFOs, the afterlife, non dual awareness and possible realities beyond ordinary perception. Ron is joined by his co author Mark Reeder, who worked with Ron on the book Bigfoot Singularity which dives in on the phenomenon from many angles. Mark lives in Boulder, Colorado where he has worked as a writer and associate producer for the video production company Center Communications. His educational programs Hispanic Achievement in America and Women's Achievement in America have appeared on PBS national television. He also writes sci fi and fantasy for youth and adults. He's kicked around the universe long enough to have more than a few bumps and bruises and roughed up and battered like his hat. He's looking forward the exit, which is going to be nice and natural. So stay with us for Ron and Mark's accounts of their experiences. Ron's fossil discoveries, his work in biofeedback, his encounters with the void and out of body experiences, and practical lessons drawn from aikido and flow practice. Listen through to hear how he separates direct experience from interpretation, how he approaches extraordinary claims and what his journey may offer anyone questioning consciousness, identity and the nature of reality. With all that, welcome Ron and Mark to Super Normalized. [00:01:34] Speaker B: Good to be here. Good to be here. [00:01:38] Speaker A: So where should we start? I mean, Ron, you had some wild childhood experiences. Can you describe the powerful experience of oneness with nature at the age of 10? What happened there? And how did that create a different understanding about you and your relation to life at the time? [00:01:56] Speaker B: So my interpretation of a non dual experience is the self disappears the wrong thing, and there's just the world from the outside. Somebody watching when I'm in that state probably wouldn't notice anything different except everything was kind of working out. And I was invited on my birthday by a neighbor of somebody else who was collecting snakes. He said, I'm going to take you to this ravine in this small paper mill town where I grew up. It was a beautiful May day. And he was kind of a strange, strange guy. Everybody said he was strange, kind of impish, you know. And so we went to the ravine, got on our bikes, you know, went down there and all of a sudden there was just the world and no me. And that lasted for quite a while. And of course I never told anybody about it because nobody would have believed me. And I really couldn't articulate It. But I've had many of those since. Every one's spontaneous. There's no pattern that I can see. Probably the most peculiar one I ever had was. I think Mark was there. We were filming a series on the American Sniper. And we were filming a couple of snipers that had come back from Afghanistan, Marines. And I flipped into that state, and in that state, it's like the flow state. Everything works perfectly. And it did work perfectly. Everything worked out on the shoot. We did scenarios of killing bad guys and that sort of stuff. You were there, Mark, at that time, right? Yep. And I don't think you noticed anything bizarre about me when I was in that state. Other than the fact that. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Other than the fact that everything you did moved with the fluidity that I found uncommon. [00:04:00] Speaker B: So that's one example. Another time I was in an evening baseball game in a little Podunk town in Wyoming. No reason for that. And another one occurred when I was filming a thing for public television here on Steinbeck's journey down the Baja. And we were on the boat, cruising down there, and I just slipped into it, and it was beautiful. That just gives you an example of a few of these states. And the self is just gone. [00:04:35] Speaker A: How did that experience shape the way you viewed nature, identity, and the boundaries between yourself and the world? [00:04:43] Speaker B: Wow. Well, it disrupts the ordinary understanding of that. There's this difference that somehow there's me, the self thing, observing stuff, acting, and there's the world out there that's being acted upon. And it would suggest that that boundary is false, that distinction is not real. And I fall back on that periodically when I start doing philosophical things. I remember that that's really the case that there's. Most of the boundaries that we experience are all artificial, including the one between you and me and Mark. It's not real. We all hold kind of the same divine essence or soul or godlike thing, whatever you want to call it. [00:05:42] Speaker A: Is that a meta perspective? We're, like, basically just talking to ourselves. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Pardon? [00:05:47] Speaker A: From a meta perspective. We're all talking to ourselves right now. [00:05:51] Speaker B: I know stories about telling stories. [00:05:57] Speaker A: That's it. What would you say to someone who has had a profound experience but feels unsure on how to interpret it or how to share it? [00:06:11] Speaker B: First of all, they should be confident that many people have had these experiences and that it's excellent that you have that experience. You got to find a community to express it in. If you're in, let's say, some religious context. I know somebody who had kind of experience like that and called for an exorcism, you know, so you got to be careful. So many kids have these kinds of experiences. They tell their parents or somebody and, you know, they're ridiculed or, you know, told they're crazy or whatever. And instead of a life motivating situation, it's just the opposite, kind of destroys them. So it's time that everybody starts accepting these things are okay and you're not crazy if you have them. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you listen to the podcast, you'll hear that there's a lot of people that have been through these experiences and have learned to shutter out the people that don't understand, for one thing, so they could actually live a normal Life. So, [00:07:21] Speaker C: sorry, C.J. but I think it's also important for people to understand that these experiences are not just a 20th or 21st century phenomenon. They go back through history. Moses, Christ, Mohammed. You go into the 19th century, you have Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism here in the United States. You have Edgar case in the 20th century. So there are examples of individuals who have profound non dual experiences or have profound connections to something larger than themselves, which a paranormal experience of some kind, which alters their perception of who they are in the world and how they can relate to it. And in the case of, say, someone like St. Francis of Assisi, he has a dream that Christ is telling him to build his church, and so he spends lifetime building the church, building churches. St Martin of Tours saw a beggar who he was convinced was the embodiment of Christ, and he tears his cloak in half, gives half of it to the beggar, and he becomes a person who espouses the spirituality of Christ. From being a Roman soldier, who the Roman soldiers are known for their brutality, he becomes a advocate for this spirituality. So I think if individuals can understand that their experiences are, as Ron stated, are shared by many people in the 21st century, there is also a long lineage of these experiences starting thousands and thousands of years ago. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it just seems that societal conditioning over time has been framed up to almost shun these experiences in some ways to be able to keep control and to keep everyone focused on making the money to keep everyone in power. [00:09:42] Speaker C: There is that. And then sometimes people's experiences are so frightening, especially when you're a young child, that we suppress them or repress them, whatever word you want to use. My own personal experience is that I was very sick when I was 6 years old with the mumps. In fact, I was so sick, I actually saw my death every night for a week. My mom Was literally in the bed with me, keeping me from, I don't know, dying. I guess her presence really helped steady me. On the seventh night I saw that I was going to live and I came out of this experience and my mom was there and I woke her up and said, mom, I'm going to live. I'm going to be okay. But that experience so frightened me that for 60 some years I repressed it. I told it sometimes as a story, you know, like, oh, I made my mom scared when I was a little kid. But it wasn't until Ron. And Ron has been my mentor in a lot of different things, especially in writing, but also in this journey toward understanding the self through paranormal or supernatural phenomena. It wasn't until he started working with me on that that I realized things that happened to me when I was a very young child and as I was growing up had a significant impact on me. And I just simply repressed the experiences because they had so frightened me. [00:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that can be pretty intense when you're a child. I had a lot of contact with spirits when I was very young and some of them weren't too friendly. So it was, yeah, it's just a part of the, you know, the territory. I mean, as it is in this world, not everyone's nice. So, you know, in the spirit world the same thing happens. Yeah, yeah. So, Ron, I was going to ask you about your exploration of fossils. Evolution in deep time. You actually began collecting fossils as a young person. What first captured your imagination about them? [00:11:50] Speaker B: They look cool. So I grew up in a place in the Midwest where all the fossils were very old, time wise when there was nothing on land, just animals in the sea, the early periods of life. And that's. I've always collected continuously in that section of time. The early time when, when everything was becoming, you know, Dan, all the forms of life, animal life were shaping and so I just thought they were really cool. And you know, their design was beautiful. Mostly they were shells because most of the time what preserves are the hard parts. You know, like when you find dinosaurs, you find their skeletons. Right. You don't find their soft tissue. And so the same thing is true when you go back, you know, half a million, 500 million years or 450 million years. You're finding only the hard parts and not every. Like a worm, you know, where our origin as vertebrates is a worm like creature, you know, we're worms. Eventually we got to eat. Now here we are. So from the beginning it was just like finding treasures, you know, and we find them in these quarries. I know there are some really famous fossil sites in Australia, particularly for the animals that preceded the great Cambrian explosion, the Ediacaran. Did you know that? [00:13:29] Speaker A: No. [00:13:30] Speaker B: The really earliest life forms are the famous spot in Australia. So eventually my friend and I, who had been collecting since we were kids, discovered probably the second site where amongst these early life forms in the sea, the soft parts were preserved, not just the hard parts. And so for the first time or second time, they get a look at the whole ecosystem. And that was a big boon to collecting. And following that, we discovered another one of those sites and we collected two others. So that was kind of my contribution. And in the process, papers were written describing the ecosystem and the discovery, and certain species were identified, and I'm co author on some of those. And. And it was. It's been a beautiful hobby that I've had all my life. And it's a way of getting out in the wilderness and poking around and seeing things you wouldn't see all the time. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Well, I see a lot of the production you've done in video and media content is based around your exploration of a lot of the parks in the US And I looked and went, wow, you've really dived deep on most of them by the looks of it. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I pretty much did. Visited every park and film and told this. Every park filmed it and told the story of it. In fact, the way I divided up the structure of the programs was adopted by the Park Service because it seemed to work nicely. Have you been to the U.S. i [00:15:27] Speaker A: have several times, mostly to the west coast, and I went to Burning man one time. So [00:15:36] Speaker B: our park system is divided into basically three parts. There's the national parks, which are the big ones, like, oh, the Everglades, grand canyon ones at 1:1 Yellowstone, and then there are these things called monuments, and the presidents are allowed to take a site and call it a monument, and then it becomes part of the park system, and there are more of those than there are. And then there are national historic sites, and of course, they're preserving history, and they're all part of the greater park system in the United States. So there's a lot of places you can go. My biggest regret is that we didn't have drones when I was doing this. It would have been so cool to get those big aerial shots. Yeah, but, you know, in filming, we had, you know, special privileges to see things and do things that most people don't get to do, like fly a plane over the Grand Prismatic in Yellowstone. Which is mind blowing. [00:16:42] Speaker A: Did you see anything unusual that you didn't put into your programs? [00:16:48] Speaker B: Did I? I mean, besides squabbles between parking. [00:16:54] Speaker A: No. I mean, because you talk about Bigfoot. I mean, did you see anything? [00:16:58] Speaker B: No, there was no Bigfoot. I didn't even know what they were at the time. I was doing these farthest things from my imagination. But, you know, there's a hierarchy in the park system, you know, is any bureaucracy. And who gets to speak on camera is a big deal. You know, one does. You know, it's just that kind of stuff. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you did some early work with biofeedback and human potential. Now tell us about human sensory systems and the development of. At the University of Wisconsin cybernetic lab. What were you actually investigating there? [00:17:39] Speaker B: Me personally? The lab itself. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:17:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Pardon you personally. What were you experiencing there with biofeedback? [00:17:48] Speaker B: My project was. So you know what biofeedback is or homeostatic systems. You know, we have a thermostat here in Colorado, and it's connected to something that cools. Brings cool air or brings hot air in, you know, to. So it's this feedback system that keeps going back and forth. And so one of the hypotheses behind cybernetics is that this is almost the way of life. All the time I talk to you, that changes you. You have a different thought then I. That changes how I go the next time. All animals operate that way. They're causative agents. You know, it's like a communication that keeps going all the time. But in order to do that, well, as a human being, you got to track the environment, right. To interact with it. If I wave my hand like this and you can't follow like this, right now I see your head's not turning, but you could track it right by turning your head with us. Can you do that? [00:19:03] Speaker A: Oh, I pretend to screen. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So my project was initially, children learned to do smooth created movements. You know, you can't be, you know, a baby's jerky and all that. Eventually they can smooth move. And then once you control your head, you can track, you know, with. And you get that from holding onto somebody, your mama's arm, you're moving with it. That's how you track tactically. And the question I was exploring was, what age does this tracking behavior switch from tactile to vision? And six years old. Oh, right. And I was able to design equipment to. To demonstrate that. So because of our bilateral symmetry, I can do this, and I can do this. You Know, one hand like this, another hand. But if I try and do that with both hands, I can't do it. They fall into this symmetry going together. Can't break it. A piano player can, of course. And so like a five year old. So I had to get. When you're working in a university, you can get students because they get extra credit. And I had these two wands and I would have to get somebody individually to do the movements to see. So like a 4 year old could track both hands that are going crazy from two different people. You understand what I'm saying? [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Person over here doing this, another person doing crazy shit. And these 4 year olds can just follow along perfectly. Take a 7 year old and their hands fall off the. The other person's hand immediately. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Okay. And so this is important in terms of, you know, human development. If you don't, if you fall behind, you know, in the basic tactile thing, you're going to have trouble all your life because it's hard to correct unless you're aware of it. At the time, this was not conventional wisdom. You know what ruled psychology at that time and development was behaviorism, Skinner. Everything is behavior and it's all predetermined. Should I tell you the joke we made about that at the time? [00:21:30] Speaker A: Yeah, go on. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Huh? Can I do it? [00:21:32] Speaker A: Yeah, do it. [00:21:34] Speaker B: Okay. So two behaviors, you know, just had sex and one turns over. I could see it was great for you, honey. How was it for me? [00:21:54] Speaker A: So your diving into science eventually led to filmmaking as well. And you went into film production and later acquired the center communications. What caused you to go into that major change of direction? [00:22:10] Speaker B: You mean why did I leave research and start making. Doing media? Yeah. Well, I had this thought, or at least I made it up that I had this thought. I'm not quite sure is that. Well, you write up a paper. I wrote up some paper, you know, about what I just told you, you know, with the. And of course the person who's running the lab is always the one that got his name at the top. And. And maybe, you know, 20 people will read it. And then somebody came down and said, I was at starting Wisconsin Public Television and Radio. Does anybody have any projects? We need some projects came down to the lab and I thought, well, that'd be cool. You mean like maybe 100,000 people will see what I do and do a peer review? That sounds good. And so gradually I shifted into that and I just knew how media was done. I could explain why that's the case. It's not that I'm a savant, but it was kind of comes from the kind of philosophical work I had done earlier college years that I worked from the top out, from the bottom up, top down, not bottom up. And so it became my career, first through public television and radio, and then when cable arose, I moved to Boulder, where I am right now, because it was a spiritual center and it was cool to play in the big leagues for a little while. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah, I can see how that reach is a better way to make change, so turning you more into a bigger change agent. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, back in the beginning you had VHS and you could, you know, you could make some money there. But when DVDs came for their short run, it was tremendous. One of the first projects we did on DVD was on the Great Indian Wars. There's the Central Plains in the country and a number of Native American tribes do have horses, and they battled the US army, and Mark and I worked on that, and that's made me so much money, it's unbelievable. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Wow, that's cool. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Does that answer your question? [00:24:39] Speaker C: Well, one of the interesting things about that great American Indian wars was Ron's approach wasn't about having a bias one way or other, the other about it, whether they were good or bad, just a clear historical approach that looked at the, the wholeness of what's happening in that time. And the result was that it became a bestseller because, and I, I, I like to think of it this way. It became a bestseller because critics on both sides said, oh, this is a terrible thing because it's not telling my point of view. And I think the American consumer said, well, this is great. It's not telling one particular point of view. It's balanced. And that's one of the things that in working for Ron, he's been my mentor in writing for years now. One of the things I've learned is that when you're doing an educational video or a documentary, unless you're specifically contracted to show a particular point of view, if you want to understand a subject, you're balanced in it. You don't come at it with a severe bias one way or the other, but you're looking at it and trying to develop a not only rapport with the subject matter, but a rapport with the audience that speaks to as many people as possible. [00:26:05] Speaker A: That makes complete sense to me. I mean, having that point of neutrality lets people make their own decisions. [00:26:13] Speaker C: Yes. And that worked through the three books now that we've done on paranormal. Ron brought me into his he was doing movies on the paranormal on Bigfoot, UAPs and things. He brought me in to help him write a few of the books, mostly because of my background is in history, master's in history from the University of Cincinnati. And so I'm helping him with the historical research and helping him with the writing. And so looking at something like a paranormal experience that a person has because they spotted a Bigfoot, for example, what they consider to be they have a Bigfoot experience, for example, instead of saying, oh, this couldn't possibly happen, or saying, oh my gosh, this is the end of days, because we're all, we're all seeing Bigfoot, Ron looked at it and said, what does this experience really mean for the individual? So exploring that allowed us to [00:27:23] Speaker B: look [00:27:24] Speaker C: at these phenomenon from a wider lens. And it led to something eventually which ron called the CE6 protocol, which was a way of looking at how these paranormal phenomena present themselves. And I'll let Ron talk about that, because to me, the CE6 protocol, which has been in the last year, in the last year, has really opened up what it means to have these paranormal experiences. Ron, you're on. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Am I now? [00:28:06] Speaker A: So [00:28:09] Speaker B: about 10 years ago, when I was hired to do my first experiencer type program series on Bigfoot, I noticed that I did a lot of interviews with people who had experiences visual, probably mostly where strange things happen, they disappear before their eyes. They were all kind of like that. Could never quite capture it totally. There's never been, besides the Patty movie, a real good capture on a trail cam or anything else, a Bigfoot. And so. And I had always been interested in science fiction and, and, you know, UFOs and that kind of stuff. And I thought, is there a connection between the phenomena of Bigfoot and the phenomena of UAPs? Because it was about the time that the. Some of these things were disclosed, like the Tic Tacs, you know, what they are, where these Navy pilots recorded these things, doing things physically that are impossible by our consensus science, anyhow. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:29:30] Speaker B: And so I did this thing called the Bigfoot Alien Connection Revealed. And I kind of did a side by side comparison. It's been an enormous success. It really began the process for many people saying, I've had these experiences and it's cool. Which was our main purpose. We talked about that earlier. It's okay to have them. A lot of people are having them join the crowd. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, exactly. [00:29:57] Speaker B: But I also had, you know, a background of exploring the traditional spiritual paths of the east in particular, because I could, because there's a Lot of cachet with being a media producer. You can talk to anybody. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:30:13] Speaker B: I've interviewed Nobel prize winners and they're asking me, is this tie okay? Should I get a different shirt? You know, that's the kind of power this, you know, the producer of something media has. You know, it's kind of like, you know, immortality or something like that. So I've always used that as my tool of investigation. It works nicely. Where was I going with this? Now what was I talking about? [00:30:40] Speaker C: Well, we're heading toward the CE6 protocol. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so it occurred to me that these kinds of experiences in the east, you know, enlightenment, Kencho, these sort of things, these mystical experiences, maybe near death experiences, what have they got to do with contact experiences, seeing a UAP or a Bigfoot? They seem very different, don't they? I mean, they're all evolve humans in a way. I don't know. [00:31:15] Speaker A: From my own experiences, I wouldn't say that they're much different. It's the phenomenon showing different faces. [00:31:23] Speaker B: Okay, I like that. So Jacques Vallee, do you know who he is? Yes, he has his control hypotheses. Control system hypotheses. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I know about that. [00:31:36] Speaker B: There's this presence that has the ability to masquerade as a UAP or a Bigfoot and other and produce mystical experiences. The presence, not Jacques himself. And so I designed the CE6 protocol to provide evidence for or against his hypotheses. And I've done seven of them now. And it's amazing how the presence has produced stuff that's impossible. Which is what? It keeps the mystery alive. [00:32:16] Speaker A: What examples of things that have been produced with the CE6 protocols. [00:32:23] Speaker B: So the first one we did, I don't know. Do you know what Bigfoot chatter is? Rob Moorhead? [00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:30] Speaker B: Yep, we recorded stuff like that. The chant I use is A, E, I, O, which are the basic vowels. It goes way back. [00:32:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:40] Speaker B: And it's probably the beginning of proto language. We got proto language recorded during the protocol. We got a beat, a loud beat, like bump, bump, bump, bump. Because one of the hypotheses is that music is autoregressive like language, like the LLMs. That's how. It's a statistical relationship between the notes, the words that makes everything go. There's no grammar, syntax. It's just that and the process micro. The words that are following now are generated by my, maybe by my LLM and operating in yours too. You can see kind of like prompts. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:33:28] Speaker B: we had this really unusual smell, sweet, kind of Sweet and awful, which is characterized a lot of Bigfoot situations. We had like 17 or 18 subsonic pulses that we didn't really hear, you know, but people felt in some sense, you know, it's a different kind of thing. A couple of our things, like a REM pod, you know, people communicated, captured something on the sls. So we got a lot of stuff that said, here's lots of ways I can masquerade as a Bigfoot review, huh? [00:34:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's very interesting. I was going to ask you then, how can people learn that protocol and practice it? [00:34:14] Speaker B: Buy our book and watch the movie. [00:34:16] Speaker A: Yeah, [00:34:19] Speaker B: okay. [00:34:20] Speaker A: Which book? Which movie? [00:34:22] Speaker B: Ah, didn't I send you a link or something? I don't know. [00:34:28] Speaker C: Anyhow, the book is the High Strangeness of Bigfoot. It's also a movie released earlier this year in the spring. And in that we look specifically at the historical. The historical background of human language and how it has led to humans being the only species that tell stories. Now, all species communicate, whether you're a. A talking raven in the Tower of London or you're a raccoon or a squirrel, all species communicate. But humans are the only species that actually tell stories about themselves. And we have a specific language that uses, as Ron stated earlier, the proto language of the vowels A, E, I, O, U, which is very specific to humans, has to do with the way our mouths and pharynx are about the same length, which allows us to say those vowel sounds. No other species, no other primate can do it. No other species can do it. If we can hear dolphins chatter, but they cannot produce vowel sounds at the same time, our ears and the three bones in the inner ear are specifically there to distinguish consonant sounds. K, T, D, something like that. So we are a species which has developed specifically to be able to speak a language. And that language gives us the ability to tell stories, but it also gives us the ability to pursue mysteries. If we go back to Jacques Vallee's idea of presence and mystery, I like to say that there's a certain percentage of humans who are like cats, can't leave something alone, have to pursue it. And it's lucky that some humans have more than one life, even nine lives, because a lot of mysteries can lead us down a path that's very, very dangerous. But one of those mysteries has led us to a technological revolution over the last 10,000 years, including farming, Bronze Age, Iron Age. If you want to fast forward 1500 years from the birth of Christ, you have the scientific revolution of the 16th century and 17th century. You have the industrial revolution of the 19th century, the communications revolution of the 20th century, and the Internet revolution, and AI revolution of the 21st century. All of these stem back from that ability of humans to tell stories. And we are unique in it. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah. That's really powerful and makes a lot of sense to me. Okay, so you want me to give [00:38:00] Speaker B: you a couple more examples? [00:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah, please. [00:38:04] Speaker B: So there's this kind of mystical place called Sedona, Arizona. And we did the protocol in Sedona in a football field high school with over 200 people. And part of the protocol is to do a kind of meditation, mindfulness meditation, where you notice, focus on some aspect of your sensory system, like your smelling or taste or touch or body feelings, you know, and so on. And. Towards the end of the protocol, I decided to have people looked at the sky, you know, because you can close your eyes and there's still something to see. Right? You have that kind of black space. Sometimes people have things going on like the hypnagogic state and all that. And so I said to the goop, now open your eyes. And on our thermal, within 16 seconds, there were four fast movers, tic tac tight things in the thermal, which is really cool. Moving at speeds that were, you know, impossible in terms of our consensus physics. And then. Do you know who Dean Radin is? You ever hear? So Dean kind of joined our team, and he said, you should start doing asks, ask the presidents to do something. And his ask for the second time we went back to the first place was to have Bigfoot show up in the form of a rainbow. And I thought, hell, that ain't going to happen. But it did. [00:40:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:40:06] Speaker B: One person said, look, there's a Bigfoot in the sky. After I said, now everybody concentrate and create a Bigfoot in the form of a rainbow. It was actually like this part of a foot, and then the leg, and you could see the toes and everything. And inside was a rainbow. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Wild. [00:40:29] Speaker B: It's so cool. And it shows that it has a sense of humor. Right? [00:40:33] Speaker A: Because that's right. [00:40:34] Speaker B: You think it'd be the big animal? No, he's literally a foot. Big foot was. That was a rainbow. I did one recently. There's this place, there's this tree of sacred yew tree. That's one of the tribal people lives along the edges of the Rockies where people would come and get medicine. It was called a culturally modified artifact or something like that. It's a living tree. They modify it kind of like a bonsai tree. And I asked the presence to Show a cold spot kind of suggesting a portal. And when I looked at the thermal, there was the tree and a cold spot was running halfway down from the top where the branches start to the halfway between the ground blew me away. And then first we did the group session and then people had to walk around to go to the tree and they put their hands on it and have their experiences. And Mark could tell you about his. And I've had four extraordinary experiences. My hands on the tree, some of my only bigfoot. And so when my partner started leading the people to go to the tree at the same time, that cold spot started descending on down to finally reaching the base. And it reached the base exactly like four or five steps before the first person put their hands on the tree. That's cool, isn't it? [00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:42:17] Speaker B: So I've, like I said, I've had four experiences, all quite different from when I touched the tree. The first one was there was a bigfoot kind of a shadow figure behind my son in law. And it kind of blew me away, you know, a big thing. I said, there's a creature behind you. And he said, yeah, I know it, I've been feeling it. And he was waffling in and out of existence. But then Mark recently when I said, well, you got to try the tree, because he kind of was resistant to doing this stuff and he can go from there. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:51] Speaker B: So [00:42:55] Speaker C: let me give you a little background first. As I told you about my experience as a child, it really didn't force me. I just, it was easy to say, oh, I don't want to talk about this. This experience I had when I was six years old, being in a sort of non dual experience watching death. But about five years ago, when Ron asked me to help him with the first book on the alien Bigfoot connection revisited. I'm a realist, you know, I'm saying to him, you know, bigfoot doesn't exist. It's just all hocus pocus, you know. But Ron, Ron didn't insist that I believe in the paranormal. He asked only that I look at it objectively, these experiences. And slowly but surely as I looked at these experiences, I began to understand that people who have paranormal experiences, these paranormal experiences, open them up in different ways. For a lot of them, especially among the Lakota Indian who do the sun dance at the summer solstice, and other plains Indian tribes as well, it allows the younger members of the tribe to actually dedicate themselves to the betterment of the tribe, for example. And so I'm slowly Building toward this acceptance that this phenomenon that people experience could also apply to me. So. But I always refused to accompany Ron on any of his explorations. When he went down to sedona or when he went to bradshaw ranch, to Mount Shasta in California, I always just refused. I said, you know, ron, I'm helping you write these books. I want to keep my objectivity as a historian. Well, he finally convinced me on last memorial day weekend to attend the CE6 protocol that he and a group of about 20 people were doing. It started with this tree, and he asked me just to place my hands on the tree. And interestingly enough, when my hands were on the tree, nothing was happening. I couldn't feel anything. But I like to say instinctively, or maybe just the objective realist in me said, well, if nothing's happening, if you're touching the tree, what happens if you draw back from the tree? And at that moment, I felt what I can only describe as the heartbeat of the earth going from the tree roots as deep in the ground as they were up through the bark and into everything around us. And I thought, well, this is a really cool experience. I never expected this to happen. But that was just the opening, because we later went to a field where we did the CE6 protocol, and that's where the dean radin ask of seeing a bigfoot with a rainbow took place. And as we're all in this circle, what happened to me specifically was the wind started blowing, and it would blow pretty hard for a short burst and stop. My. My rational brain is saying, oh, this is just a microburst. We have them all the time. And. But as. As it kept going, all of a sudden, I realized that the wind was actually talking. Now, I don't know for certain that it was talking specifically to me, But I did hear what it was saying, and it was asking me to go talk to a Navajo shaman who was there, A man by the name of Garrett who was standing within the group at the edge of the group. And I went over to him, and I said, the wind just told me to come over and talk to you. Whereupon he starts talking to me, not in the Navajo language, but in what he later described as the language of the spiritual elders. I do not speak any language other than English, Other than a few bad phrases in Germany and some French curse words. But I understood, even though I had no idea what he was saying, the import of everything he was saying was, mark, go back to that time when you were six years old and let yourself go. Don't be repressed don't repress those experiences. Let those experiences blossom within you and see what it does for your life. I'm not saying that I am a spiritually emancipated person or that I am a guru of any kind. But a lot of repressed anger, a lot of repressed feelings have. Have been shown to me and drifted away. And I feel much more like I was when I was 5 years old and a person who explored everything than I have been for the last 65 years. [00:48:40] Speaker A: That's a huge change for you. [00:48:43] Speaker C: And that's what I think happens to individuals who undergo these paranormal experiences. They can have a literal sea change in their life, something that promotes an inner health, for want of a better word, or a wisdom for themselves. It's not necessarily that they have to go out and start preaching. Some people do. But it's an inner wisdom that says be aware, situationally aware of what's going around you and aware of what's happening within you. So that's my experience. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:27] Speaker A: That's wild. Thanks for sharing, Mark. That's cool. [00:49:30] Speaker B: So except for Ron. Oh, come on. So you know the protocol. Also, besides these weird manifestations that are impossible, has these effects on the participants. Some say, you know, they. They've been healed. Others say they felt a calm and peace that they'd never felt before. In fact, the last one we did, we went to what was supposedly the most haunted, terrible paranormal place in Colorado where bad things are always happening. And my ass was for benevolence and nothing bad. Now did nothing bad happen. So the person who was arranging the folks another said, we can't come there, you know, we'll get sick. We're scared. It was the most peaceful experience everybody had. They didn't want to leave. They just felt so good. And Dean's ask was to produce a kind of a tornado. There's a thing called a dust devil. You ever hear of that? [00:50:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I've experienced them when I was in the desert in Arizona. [00:50:42] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Do you have them in Australia? [00:50:45] Speaker A: We do as well, yeah. [00:50:47] Speaker B: So I guess you didn't want to say tornado. That'd be terrible. But when I did the Chan Aiou five times, twice, a huge tornadic thing, curved with wind, knocked my hat off, knocked some gear over, coincided. And the other guy who has this equipment measures physio environmental variables like, you know, magnetic fields and that sort of shit. His ask was that some barometric pressure thing would happen that would be unexplainable. And it occurred. [00:51:23] Speaker A: Yeah. What did these experiences say? To you about the protocol. I mean, obviously, you're opening a portal of some sort for this to allow things to happen. [00:51:34] Speaker B: You know, honestly, I'd like you to tell me. [00:51:40] Speaker A: All right. Okay, I'll say it. What's happening is we're allowing ourselves to resonate with the pure frequency of spirit in such a way that spirit can manifest in any way that's necessary for the people that are participating. [00:51:56] Speaker B: That seems to be what's happening. And you know in your language that the presence is that. And you know, Dean, he believes that that presence is us in some way. [00:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that would make sense. [00:52:11] Speaker B: He makes that stable. Jeffrey Kripal, Dr. Jeffrey Kripal, he believes that too. I don't know what to make of it. He thinks it's us. The future as the present, moving us forward. I mean, he says that. I don't know if he really believes it. So that's kind of where we're at. We're trying to figure out how we want to make this public besides talking to people like you. [00:52:41] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:43] Speaker A: You need to make some content around it somehow that engages people. [00:52:48] Speaker B: And it said my name once. Disembodied voice said my name around other people. That's cool. So knows who I am now. It knows who you are? [00:52:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Look, they call me every now and then, just out of the blue. When I go into my meditative states. I get my name called and things. And even. Only. Only a couple of weeks ago, I went into a space and was meditating and one came through and pushed me really hard on the shoulder. Just like, literally just pushed me to. You know, when you shove a friend, it was like a shoving from a friend. I was like, oh. And that was my recently passed friend. And he turned up to do that. And I was like, ah, there you go. So these things are. I see them as normal. I really do see them as normal. [00:53:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:30] Speaker B: But most people turn up and so our task is to make them to start agreeing with you. [00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:39] Speaker A: I think in time, you know, we are seeing more and more people actually tuning into this sort of understanding. We're going into the paradigm of magic according to. To Robin Fort. So, yeah, we. It's. It's just inevitable that this is happening. Really. [00:53:58] Speaker B: You should learn the protocol and then you can do one in Australia. That'd be cool. [00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, No, I will. [00:54:03] Speaker B: I'll. [00:54:04] Speaker A: I'll get your book and learn the protocol and figure out how to do it for sure. [00:54:10] Speaker C: Personally, I. I have an interesting. Not interesting. I have an idea that Jacques Vallee's control system hypothesis. And he states this actually has been operating for a very long time, I think since before humans had language. But our ability with language, which we talked about earlier, CJ led to a technological phenomenon throughout history, I think, has divorced us from that mystery, presence and mystery a little bit as we become more technologically dependent. And there could be lots of reasons why the presence and mystery is around and, or that this presence is a manifestation of ourselves and has been for tens of thousands of years, but that it seemed to have taken a hiatus for a while, especially, I believe, in the 16th century with the scientific revolution. And science has a nice consensus box that it tries to put everything into. In the 21st century, with the advent of the Internet, for example, people's experiences are saying that consensus no longer answers the questions of paranormal experiences that people have. And as more people share their experiences like we are on this show, or among themselves or with friends or at meetings, CE6 protocol that Ron has developed, people are understanding that the scientific consensus, that box just can't answer some questions. And I believe that that presence and mystery, if we are the presence, we are now beginning to understand and be connected to it again more directly or understand that it is a manifestation of ourselves, that that mystery is not necessarily about technology, that mystery is more than just making our lives easier through washing machines, driving cars and cell phones. I mean, we all have one of these and it makes our life very easy in some ways and miserable in others. But I think that that paranormal phenomenon or phenomena now and that Jacques Vallee idea of control system hypothesis with presence and mystery is opening us up again to where we were before we started telling stories. And where it's going to lead us, I don't know. But I think we are in for a very interesting ride over the next few generations of humans. As these stories are like a rock thrown into a still pond, all the ripples go out, reach more and more people, more and more influences, more and more understanding of what is going on. I Wish I were 20 years younger and could see how it is going to develop over the next generation, but I'm confident that it'll be something profound for the human race. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Totally agree with you and I think that's a really good rounded point to end the podcast on. I've got to thank both Ron and Mark. Your wisdom and information here shared today, I think is going to inspire others again and help them to, to realize that, you know, these experiences are normal and that we are going through a big phase shift towards A greater understanding and connection to everything. Really. [00:58:07] Speaker C: C.J. so much. Thank you so much for having us on. [00:58:10] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you, C.J. [00:58:12] Speaker C: very nice. Yeah. [00:58:13] Speaker A: Yeah. How can people find both of you and your works? [00:58:19] Speaker C: I have an author's page for my science fiction and fantasy novels that I write on Amazon. Also, there's a place called Lulu Publishing, which does my hard copy books. And then Hanger Publishing does the hard copy books of the three nonfiction works on paranormal experiences. The Alien Bigfoot Connection Revisited, the High Strangeness of Bradshaw Ranch, and the High Strangeness of Bigfoot at Hanger Publishing. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Okay, great. [00:58:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:58:58] Speaker A: And, Ron, how can people find you? [00:59:01] Speaker B: Well, you can check me out on IMDb. You know what that is? Internet movie basis. I'm on there kind of coiling through my vast history of doing crap. And. And so, you know, if you search me, you can find things. We have a. We have a Facebook page called the Bigfoot Chronicles Trilogy. [00:59:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I joined that. [00:59:27] Speaker B: Huh? [00:59:28] Speaker A: I joined that. [00:59:30] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Well, then, you know, that's one way. Yeah, that's the only way. I haven't really promoted myself. I'm not that kind of person. I'm not a guru. [00:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah, well, look, I've got it. I'll grab all those links. And may I add one other little [00:59:45] Speaker B: thing if we're still rolling. [00:59:47] Speaker A: Yeah, we are. [00:59:48] Speaker B: You know, you know, I was kind of criticizing, more than criticizing the current scientific consensus, you know, that you find in textbooks and that sort of thing, which is mechanistic and deterministic and. And. But the scientific method is something different. And it can work perfectly well to investigate the paranormal. Yes, they're separate. They're separate things. For example, on the protocol, Dean said, well, you got to set a baseline, get all your equipment, look at the place where people are going to sit around and do the protocol, see if anything shows up. Nothing's happening until the people show up. So that's basic scientific method kind of stuff to do to make a convincing argument for what we're proposing. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think some people need to have that scientific basis to be able to have that switch into the spiritual and the greater understanding of their connection to the phenomena as well as. [01:01:03] Speaker B: Of course, [01:01:05] Speaker A: thanks again, Ron and Mark. I appreciate your time and. [01:01:09] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you, C.J. [01:01:14] Speaker A: what a wonderful talk with Ron and Mark just there. It was meandering, organic without any aim. [01:01:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:01:25] Speaker A: We were going to explore deeply into Ron's life experiences and his sharing through his media and content to do with the Bigfoot paranormal and everything, and just went on a tangent of consciousness which is just perfectly, absolutely all right. And I really enjoyed this conversation with Ron and Mark. They are absolutely intent on connecting people to the other in very positive ways. Now, if you've enjoyed today's show, reach out to them both individually and say thank you. And if you've also enjoyed today's show and you're on YouTube, like, and subscribe, that'd be really cool. And if you're on the podcast app, I love good comments and I love good feedback. You can do that, too, on YouTube if you want. [01:02:12] Speaker B: I'd love that, too. [01:02:14] Speaker A: And thank you so much for listening. And you may enjoy these episodes if you're on YouTube.