Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: That's probably what I've learned the most in all this, is that it's not possible for one person or one modality to explain it all.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Welcome to Supernormalize, the podcast where we challenge the conventional break boundaries and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me CJ as we explore less uncharted realms of existence and unravel the mysteries of life. Experience. My treasured listeners, if you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at Supernormalized. That's supernormalized with a z at proton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and unusual as what it really is completely normal. Allow me to welcome to today's show Will and Karen, the hosts of the thought provoking podcast the Skeptic Metaphysicians. Through their show, they fearlessly explore the realms of metaphysics, spirituality, and spiritual awakenings. With the unique dual mind approach, they provide a balanced perspective on these topics. Will brings a pragmatic viewpoint, while Karen embraces the esoteric and open mindedness. Together, they engage in meaningful conversations with esteemed guests, amplifying important messages, and raising the vibration of the planet, which, as we all know, is right on my jam. So, on with the show.
So, welcome to the show. Will and Karen. You have a podcast yourselves that you have called The Skeptic Metaphysicians, and you've been doing that for quite a while, haven't you?
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah, almost three years now. Three years?
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Has it been that long?
[00:02:23] Speaker A: It's almost that long. It'd be three years in February.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: So how many shows you got under your belt now?
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Oh, too many.
Yeah, we're pretty close to 150 now.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Wow, that's excellent. That's excellent. So I've got to ask you both, how did you meet, and did it click straight away that you both went, oh, wow, this is cool. We both have the same sort of language here?
[00:02:47] Speaker C: Well, that's like, a two part question.
We did not have the same sort of language, but we've developed it. But we didn't click straight away.
I think we knew we were a little older when we met a lot of young couples, and should I divulge our very romantic we met on Match.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: That is a lie.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: Well, I think we were both older enough that we had already dated the people in our cities that were available, so we had to branch out.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: So you'd worked out what you don't like, so when you found what you do like, it was really obvious.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: We've exhausted all possibilities.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: No one was laughing.
That's excellent.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Okay, so you've met each other, and you both have sort of, like, congruent, but also opposing views on things in some manner. And did that actually help you to develop yourselves and each other in your understanding of, say, for example, you're doing Metaphysics sort of stuff?
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Not at first.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: It was a challenge because at first, I was the typical executive who knew everything about everything, and of course, the way that I believe things to be is 100% the way it must be. So I don't know why you're talking about so it caused some friction at.
[00:04:19] Speaker C: First, but I was a rather independent woman when we met, so I had my own business and property, and the last thing I'm going to do is let some guy tell me that his way is better than mine.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Eventually, she learned that it was better.
Why are you laughing?
[00:04:39] Speaker C: I always go back to that movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, where the woman says she's telling her daughter she's like, the man is the head of the household, but the wife, she's the neck, and she can turn that head any way she wants.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Yes, that's it.
She definitely turned my head immediately right after that.
But that's a whole other story. But then our stories were not just in that capacity, but in terms of what our belief systems were. Also, we're a little different. So we initially found some challenges trying to raise a family together, for example, as close as to I mean, as easy as where does our daughter go to school? Where we wanted to put her she wanted to put her in a religious school where I was very anti religion at the time, and that caused some waves, but it was the best items.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: I guess I can't yeah. It wasn't because it was a religious school. It's because it was the best school.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: I didn't want her to develop all these dogmas and these preconceived notions of what she should or shouldn't believe, that kind of thing. I had a pretty bad experience growing up as now Reformed Catholic, but I didn't want my daughter to have to deal with that kind of dogma. So I was very much against it, and she turned my head. She did go to that school, and it turned out to be the best thing that happened.
But she did not develop dogma, thankfully.
I should have known. She's a very independent, very smart girl of her own accord, and she is very capable of making up her own minds. No one's going to tell her what to believe, what not to believe.
We've learned that it's easier to just accept.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Excellent. Excellent. So you're moving along in life. You're enjoying each other's company and having a great relationship, and you decided to start a podcast.
How did that happen?
[00:06:37] Speaker C: No, we were having a great life, and then, like everybody, you have your ups and downs, the recession hits, we both lose our jobs, and we have to move. And then things just kind of start becoming very focused on work and making up for all that three years of not working and trying to get things done and figure it out. And Will is an atypical Hispanic male, but he's also typical in the sense that it is incredibly strong in him that he has to provide for his family.
In fact, he told me one time after he got a job because I decided to stay home with my daughter or our daughter at that point. He said to me, he said, you never have to work again.
And I got my first job when I was 13 years old, and it never even occurred to me that I wouldn't have to work, which was like, I mean, it was a gift, but I was flabbergasted. But that's how driven he is. That's how much it matters to him that he has got to be the provider. And after everything happened and we finally kind of got back on track, it just snowballed to the point where he was so fixated on that that it overtook everything.
And then problems arose.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Yeah, like everybody else during COVID it all came crashing down at one time, and I had a nervous breakdown. I had an existential crisis, for lack of a better term. I looked at myself in the mirror. I didn't like who I was at all. I thought I was someone that I wasn't. And when I was forced to face the fact that I was everything I didn't think I could possibly be, it drove me to a very dark place. And the way for me to get out of the dark place was to explore what made me me, how I could be who I wanted to be. And fundamental questions like, why are we here? Why is this life the way it is? Why are these things happening to us? What is there beyond this? Are we more than just our three dimensional bodies that we have things like that? Really existential questions that I needed urgently to answer in order to get myself out of this nasty, dark hole I put myself in. And I started the show myself for that reason.
I started interviewing people about different metaphysical modalities and spiritual awakenings and meaning and purposes of life and things like that. And little by little, I started kind of seeing where this was all leading and why I underwent such a dark night of the soul. There was a purpose behind it. And now, as I was getting more and more people in, I started to really open up. Oh, okay, I see where I need to go. And then at one point, I actually invited Karen to come on and be a guest host with me because we were interviewing someone that we both knew from back when we were living in Orlando, Florida. And we had such a great time, the four of us, because she brought her husband on, and we had a blast. So from that point forward, Karen kept coming back every once in a while as a guest host until eventually I was able to turn her head and force her to be a permanent co host. With me now on the show, and the show has thrived because of it. She's done. She's such a great addition to it.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Great story.
[00:10:09] Speaker C: You would think we would get sick of each other because we work together.
He works from home most of the time. I do too. We live together, we raise our child together. Now we do this podcast together. We're just constantly together. But it's great.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: But you're so great.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: I haven't gotten sick of you yet, which is, I mean, I had only ever dated someone for like maybe two years before we met. So this is getting on our 15 year anniversary coming up.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Did I mention that part of this exploration was joining a covenant?
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard about that in your preview. So I was like, wow, how'd that play out?
[00:10:48] Speaker A: I cannot confirm or deny that there may be some spellwork that made Karen.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: What's interesting is that he had this pastor, he was in a covenant and he did all these explorations. And I grew up I did go to Catholic school, but I also grew up very open to everything and had my share of experiences, which always I was, I guess, more of a closeted metaphysical person in our relationship. We didn't talk about it a whole lot, but it turns out through this podcast, we discovered that we've had some of the same experiences. We've actually read some of the same books that we just had never discussed in the 13 years prior of our marriage. So it's really been a new path or a new language that our marriage is discovering, which is wonderful.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: It's like you both read the same travel brochure before you came to this planet and went, good, you'll meet about then that'll be good. We'll be both mature.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah, if only we had been mature. Damn it.
Missed opportunities. But yeah, that's kind of the thing that we've learned, right? That apparently we do choose who we incarnate with, so that could very well been the case. Now, I have a theory, actually, that Karen is here to keep me on the straight and narrow. She specifically came down here to save my butt because she knew I was going to have some trouble and she's been wonderful doing that. So I thank her for whatever made her decide to do that.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Brilliant.
So you've started the podcast together and it's been booming and you've had a lot of really interesting guests and characters. Has there been anything or anyone that's happened on the podcast where you went, oh, wow, that was wow. So like ridiculously.
[00:12:34] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: There have been yeah. Karen, why don't you go first?
[00:12:42] Speaker C: Well, I don't want to call anybody, so so there have been a few times where we finish the podcast and we literally click out, leave the studio, turn the computer off, walk out of the room, shut the door just to make sure. And then we're like, what the heck just happened?
But we have learned through it all that just because we might think that that's, for lack of better words, not even remotely possible, doesn't mean, it's not we just don't know that, or we just don't know that experience.
We have had people that have told us that they are The One, the Light, and that after they're done, I'm next.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah, but to the point where she means, like, someone every time someone dies, they go through him to get to the afterlife. Every single thing that lives that dies goes through him to get to The Light, to get to the other side.
But he dropped that immediately. Like, the first question, like, oh, so what's your story? Took out a grenade and dropped it. Like, where do you go from there? I am the light. Okay, well, thank you for joining us.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: I can understand where that person would have been coming from. I've been through experiences where it makes you feel like that. And the thing is, if you hook into it, that's called a messianic complex. And you've got to watch out for that because that's actually another one of the hooks that I would say if you know about Wetico or Wendigo is one of those hooks that actually is a mind virus and doesn't help. It actually inflates the ego and makes you think you're more than you actually are. You may be doing some of that work, but you aren't the one. Everyone is.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It's hard to pin one person down. That'd be exhausting.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Exhausting, yeah.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: I worked in retail at the Front Lines for a while, and I had a lot of people that would come in with these sort of stories like this about them being The One, and they're enlightened. They're going to tell me all the stories of the universe. That's great. Thanks.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Wow. So how do you handle that? When someone comes up to you and asks you about, like, I wish that.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: I listen, just listen. Because they got to tell you a story. They're not going to stop. So you just let them tell a story.
They believe it. That's important for them to believe it. That's fine, but it doesn't mean it's actually intimately or accurately true.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: So no part of you goes, no part of you wants to go and ask them what makes you possibly think that that could be the case?
[00:15:25] Speaker B: No, it's their identity at the time, so they believe it's true, and it could also be their trauma talking. So I let them have it.
They'll find their way through it.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: You're way better than me.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Working in retail for a long time, you see everything.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Sure.
Now, for me, I think one of the ones that really surprised me the most was you remember back in the 80s when people used to play their records backwards and there would be all these satanic messages and knocking, apparently.
I'm not sure you might know about him. He lives in your country, he lives in Australia and he's dedicated his life to doing that. And God, I should probably clarify. Are you in Australia.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: He'S Hungarian.
It's just a similar accent.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: I know some of the troubles and some of the localities don't like each other, so I want to make sure I don't say the wrong thing. But anyway, he's from Israeli. He spent his whole life dedicated to finding these messages, and apparently that is a thing. And he has taped hundreds of thousands of presentations and conversations and dialogues and things like that. And he's found that I wouldn't say everyone, but many conversations that he's taped has backwards messages for each other. And basically what's claiming is that we speak in two levels. We speak in the level we're speaking to now, regular, consciously speaking, and then subconsciously by the rate of speech, by the words that we choose, by the tone of voice, by the rate of speed. We actually are subconsciously communicating to each other that way as well. And in fact, that way we are telling each other nothing but the truth. So he's recorded politicians and played them backwards for us to show us what they were actually saying when they were giving these speeches. And it is mind blowing. This is not like he said Pineapple. No, this is definitely what they said. This is not an amorphous message. You can absolutely hear what these people are saying backwards. And it's astounding. It really blew my mind.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Wow, that'd be something interesting to say. Get an AI onto and to listen to everything and decode everything.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, the way AI is going, that sort of thing could be just an app. And you talk, you'd say it and they go, you mean this?
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Like, oh, that'd be fun.
I forbid him from pulling our interview back.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's very strange and very interesting. I've never heard of this guy, but I've heard of other people doing that sort of work. So yeah, fascinating. I'll have to look him up. I'll try and track him down.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: Yeah, he'd be a great interviewer.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So you've had other guests that have blown your mind as well besides that guy. What sort of things have you learned yourselves over time that have changed your lives?
[00:18:44] Speaker C: You know what I'm going to say, Will, I have learned how much this podcast has really opened our minds to the incredible amount of possibility. We had a guest come on, he wrote in and we scheduled him and he was claiming that he knew Bigfoot and in fact had a relationship with a family of them.
And he sent us some recordings of some sounds that they made and play them, and they sound like just some guy going just making noises, and we're like, oh, my God, it's going to be really hard to keep a straight face with this guy. I mean, Bigfoot, I grew up in the 80s. We used to watch In Search of all right, we'll see how things go. So we have this interview and we're talking to this man and he's telling us about how this relationship has been evolving over the years and he's seen them grown. And then through the conversation, he explains to us that it's not this creature that is hidden away in some cave somewhere, but in fact that they are interdimensional beings that can come in and out of our dimension and kind of they're very playful and kind of jokesters and went on to explain all of this. Well, at the end of the interview, we said goodbye and hung up and everything and we were both like, okay, yeah, that could happen. And we went from like, bigfoot are you kidding me? To oh, I get it, as an interdimensional being, which most people would think that was more crazy than a guy hiding in the cave. So just seeing how much our willingness to be open and to believe these other stories has increased, that's been one of my favorite things about it.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I've been listening to other podcasts and there was a couple where I've listened to and it actually probably was interviewing the same guy and he's talking about all of that and I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool because then all of the podcasts I've listened to about Bigfoot have different little pieces of the same puzzle. But then if you go read a book like Passport to Magrnia by Jacques Valley, he talks about all of these beings being interdimensional and that Bigfoot is just a manifestation of facet of that same being or all beings. And I've had experiences with interdimensional beings myself, so I know that this stuff happens and they can pop out of the walls at any time and do stuff. So to me that's normal. So when I hear these stories, I'm like, okay, this is more parts of the same puzzle.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: I'm sorry, you can't just drop that little bomb on us and then that's going to you had what, people walk into walls?
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Okay, I'll tell you a short version of a very long story.
I'm working in a very high stress situation programming. And as a part of that, I'm doing really deep meditation to try and diffuse each day. And I get in contact with beings that just start talking to me and I'm like, okay, this is weird. I don't believe you. I could be just hallucinating. Am I going mad? I think this is what's going on.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Were you seeing these beings?
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Not yet.
At start it was just like voices, like little saying hello, things like this popping in. And I feel their presence and they're like at the time, I didn't know what the word was for it, but it seemed like a group of friends. I'm like, okay, this is a group of friends. They've known me forever. It feels like that. It's got that feel to it and I'm going along with it. And the stress level thing at work and subsequently my meditations are deepening in another way to open to more of the understanding of them. And I say to them, look, I feel like I'm traveling very long distances each time to see you, even though I'm still here. And they said, no, we're right here, and we'll prove it to you. And one time went into that meditative space, and the walls started to change into beings in front of me. And I looked at my arms, and I was made of them, looked at my hands and went, oh, well, okay. And they're all holding together to hold a shape that looks like hands and arms. Like, okay, we're made of these things. These things are us, and we are them. How weird is that? And they're like, yeah, that's what we've been trying to tell you for a long time. We're one. And I'm like, okay.
But for me, that was a living experience, a lived experience. And I couldn't compress it anymore. It was like, this is it. I have to accept this. And that was part of a greater story that just went on to do a lot of other things, to my mind, strange ways.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: We need to have you on our show to talk about that specifically.
Okay, that's wonderful.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So for me, these things, that's why I do my podcast. It's to normalize the supernatural. I've had so many experiences that in the past, I'd talk to people and they'd look at me like, either, oh, yeah, he's crazy, or they'd roll their eyes or another person would go, oh, wow, that's amazing. Can you tell me more? And so I'm trying to make it so there's more of those people.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:53] Speaker C: And I think the more, at least for me, and I think for Will too, the more of these conversations that we have and the more open we are to these experiences, the more they happen. Maybe it's not that they happen more, it's that we see them more or we're more willing to accept that they're happening.
We live in a very old house, and we have a dog recently, and he's crazy. He's a great dog, but he's crazy. He's crazy. He's afraid of all kinds of things, like his food dish and whatnot. And the other like, maybe a month ago, I was walking upstairs, and out of the corner of my eye, I saw someone on the stairs for a flash. And I turned around and there was no one there. And it was like a guy in a black pants and a brown coat. And I'm like, oh, I'm just thinking about something. Whatever. Well, that night, my dog stopped coming up the stairs. He would be too afraid to come upstairs. So the next day, I'm like, we'll see what happens. So I go and I sit in that little spot. I'm like, you don't have to stay here.
I'm not sure if I'm talking to someone, but I'm like, thank you for protecting the house. It's wonderful. But you can go home now. We're fine. We're safe. If you want to stay, if you could just move off the stairs so my dog can come up. So I had this whole conversation, and after that, the dog's backing up and down the stairs. So I don't know. I don't know. You never know. But I feel like we're having more of these experiences and just more open to yes.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I see that happening.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I do too, except mine's a little different. I think Karen's much more attuned to the other side where I'm much more attuned to reality.
She's had experiences beyond that with other spirits in another house and things like that firsthand that make you go, yeah, there's no way that that's not real. But I've not seen it. I've not experienced that. What I've experienced is the realities of quantum mechanic would experience, and that is the shifting of realities and the changes that noticing the differences, we had someone come on the show, talk about the Mandela effect.
And not long before that episode was about to happen, I got a very firsthand.
[00:26:07] Speaker C: Experience.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you.
I noticed the Mandela effect in full on gosh. I cannot think today. I can't in full action. I was on a business trip. I was going on a business trip. I have fly a particular airline. This airline has an app. And the day before, I'm kind of OCD. In that case, I look at my seat assignment the night before to make sure, okay, I know it's c, 20 D. Okay, good. Then I look at it again. When I check into the airport, I look at it again. As I get to the gate, I look at it again. Before I swipe in to go down the ramp to go into the plane, I look at it again. But right before I get on the plane, just to make sure I haven't forgotten what seat I'm on, every time I saw it was 20 D. So I then confidently put my phone away and sit in seat 20 D, only to have someone tap me in the shoulder and say, excuse me. So you're in my seat. No, of course. I've checked this phone 20 times. There's no possible way that, oh, you must be meaning the middle seat, which is right next to me, which is open, 20 D, is an aisle seat. She goes, yes, 20 D, the aisle seat. That's mine. And I said I pull up my phone to show her proof that I am indeed in the right seat. And as I'm opening up the app, I look at it, and for a split second, for a split second, it said 20 D. And then it switched to 20 C. It just in front of my eyes. It changed, and I was flabbergasted, completely floored. That had never happened before. And I had a theory. I actually got into the I'm so sorry. I can't believe it. What a stupid mistake. I went to 20 c, pulled out my laptop, and immediately wrote the entire story down because I did not want to forget it, because I have a theory that this has happened to me again and again and again. I haven't noticed, or I've noticed and I've forgotten, or I've tried to intellectualize it, oh, it must be my imagination, or it must be this, or whatever, but I looked into every possibility.
What could it have possibly been? Rationally instead of what the reality was, which was I shifted realities in that particular instance, and every excuse I could shoot down, there was no way it could be anything else other. So the act of me writing it down helped me to remember, so that way I could pay closer attention to these changes, because they happen to us all the time. All the time. We're just not noticing them.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: How about the idea that you're actually a very powerful subconscious magician, and you had spelled upon yourself that change? You didn't realize that you were holding it?
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Well, in a way, I could see what you're saying, but I was fully on board with 20 d. 20 d was my seat, right. So I wasn't manifesting anything specifically other than for almost three years, I've been trying to get the universe to show me a sign that this stuff is real. I've been going day in and day out, show me, show me, show me, show me, show me the universe is okay, fine. Shut up. Here.
[00:29:08] Speaker C: So can I just put something in there? He's been looking for a sign.
Two years ago, he was diagnosed with cancer, right? And in those two years, we were kind of on active watch before the doctor wanted us to do anything because they wanted to see the rate at which it was growing.
And so he had an MRI, and they saw actually more spots. We're like, oh, no. So they do this targeted biopsy. Well, the results come back from the targeted biopsy, and the cancer is gone, totally gone. Now, in those two years, we've been interviewing people, talking out, talking to people, not hiding it. It's just part of our story. And all of these people reiki healers, energetic healers, intuitives, they have all just put their loving energy out there and been working on it energetically. He's been in a harmonic egg. All of this stuff changed his diet somewhat. So when he said that, he was still looking for proof, and the plane ticket was the proof, the cancer is gone.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: You know what? You're absolutely right. The only way that I can explain that is that I've been trying to just forget the whole cancer scare, because when someone gives you a prognosis of the big c, man, it changes you. It just makes it your own mortality. Suddenly, you are a human being who is finite, and it just scared the. Living crap out of me.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: But in forgetting the scare, you're also forgetting the beautiful healing 100%. You can't that is so tremendous. You can't you're absolutely pushed that away.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: And that goes back to my point where the rational mind just explains it away. Or maybe it's just a coincidence. Maybe it just happens that the diet got it, whatever it is, right? Rationally, you try to intellectualize a reason or a way that this could have happened, but the more you look at it, the more we talk about it, the more we think about it. There is no flipping way. I had not a single rand of radiation. I had random radiation. I had not a single knife touched, no area. Nothing. No medicine whatsoever. Nothing. I did nothing except watch it to make sure it didn't grow and throw myself knee deep, waisty, headburst into all of these different healing modalities that somewhere on the line, I would say all of them together. The power of intention of our community that has been following us for almost three years, something that I can't explain, took that cancer away, and I am eternally grateful.
It's just a scary moment. Yeah.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: And we even went to a second doctor to get a second opinion. When he was first diagnosed to this super specialist who's been flown here to teach at the university, he's like, yes, it was cancer. I'm like, no, it's not.
So we knew it wasn't just one guy making a mistake.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
Well, look, I want to say something else too, about this, but you're doing the podcast at this time as well. It's actually a result also possibly of positive. So you're doing good in the world, and that's affecting people on a greater scale. And what happens from that is you get positive blowback, so the goodness you're putting out bounces back to you and erases all of that sort of stuff.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: I love that. I think it's a great story that we actually share that story with people who ask us all the time that you're right. Our show has never been well, not a century. It was very self serving at first. It was all about me. I need to heal me. I need to figure out what's going on inside of me. And then there was a point where I do it all myself, everything. I research the guests, I book the guests. I do the interviews at the time now with Karen, thankfully, but I edit the show. I market the show. I do everything myself. And it was taking a lot of time away from our family. So there was a point where I was feeling better and it was time to put the show away. It's time to put it away because it was taking too much time. So Karen started looking online, just Googled our show, see what would come up, and she stumbled on Apple podcasts. We're not typical podcasters. This is the very first one we've ever done. We didn't really know a lot and weren't aware that all these reviews were out there. So Karen started reading these reviews and page after page of five star reviews, talking about how much this show has helped them. And she turned to me and she said, oh, my God, if there's one other person out there that you're helping with this show, you can't stop this. You can't close it down. And from that point forward, suddenly it became more about putting this out there for those that needed something like this. We're still learning every single interview. We learn a ton. So it's still somewhat self serving, but we're doing it in service to others because as we learn, everyone else around us that's listening also learns. And because of that, we've not done a single dollar of advertising on the show, of marketing on the show, and it is growing by leaps and bounds every month. It's higher than the last because we are doing it with good purpose, with good intent. And to your point, when you do things with good intent, good comes back. I think that's what's happening.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
Wow. Okay. So how do you balance your pragmatic and esoteric perspectives in your discussions?
[00:34:32] Speaker C: We're the balance. He's one side on the other.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: I think the trick is to accept for a long time, I was, no, this is the way it is. What you think can't possibly be true.
Now, Karen and I still don't really truly see eye to eye on everything. In fact, we probably disagree more than we agree on things. However, what we've learned is that that is exactly as it's supposed to be. Her path is her path. Mine is mine. And both are equally valid to ourselves. And the act of us allowing and supporting the other in their path is what has helped us to work through it. Because just because I say this doesn't mean that that is also not true. And quantum physics has proven that we're living in a field of pure potentiality. All possibilities exist at the same time simultaneously. So as long as you don't claim that your way is the only way, then we're on board. We're here to share your story and support you and applaud you and celebrate you for finding the right way for you.
[00:35:44] Speaker C: And also as long as it's not harming anyone.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: Correct? Yeah, that's true.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
So what are some common misconceptions about metaphysics that you aim to debunk with your show and your interviews?
[00:35:59] Speaker C: One of the things I found is very interesting. So like we said earlier, we both grew up Catholic, and I ended up studying a lot of world religions and kind of have cobbled together my own sort of spirituality. And it does have some Christianity or some Christian things in there. And I think a lot of people think that metaphysics, you have to completely reject any notion of any sort of religion that you may have followed, and just strictly stick with whatever the metaphysicists tell you. If you believe in Catholicism or if you're Jewish or Islamic, you don't have to reject that. You can have a little bit of everything.
Will always says that. I'm sure he'll tell you his story, but everyone is basically saying the same thing, just with different know. And we've had reverends and different people from different religions come that have had their experiences and that are channelers or that play the records backwards and whatnot. And it doesn't have to exclude traditional religion, which I think is a big thing because so many people, that's their comfort zone and they're so afraid to leave it, yet they're curious, but they maybe think that this is a dark area, and it's not. It's actually the opposite. It's about the love and it's about the light, and it can embrace everyone in every culture and every religion.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: Now, the story that Karen so graciously teed me up for, it's my favorite story. When someone asked me what my belief system is, this is the story I tell them. One day, God was standing under his Mountain of Truth, and he looked down on the planet and he liked what he saw, so he needed to look a little closer. And as he did, he kind of lost his balance. And as he grabbed his footing again, a couple of pebbles from the Mountain of Truth dislodged from the mountain and fell down onto the earth. He was like, uhoh So he looked over the edge of the cliff to take a look and see what was going to happen. And to his surprise, he saw all the people of all the world running to these pebbles, grabbing them, raising them over their head and exclaiming, I have the truth, when in essence, we just have a little pebble with a mountain truth. And so in our explorations on the show, we found that we are just pebbles. We are never going to know the entire truth of everything because we can't. It is way too much for our minds in this three dimensional world to fathom. So the best we can do is just explore, question, believe, and just surrender.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Okay, so, Will, has that actually changed your faith?
Do you have a different kind of purview on the world now?
[00:38:43] Speaker A: I do, completely, yeah.
I was raised Catholic, right?
I renounced it because of the experiences I had. So I actually did a big search. I looked into Hinduism and Budhism, and I went to Covenant. I went to explore Wicca. I did doing all these kinds of things to try to find who I was and what my religion was. And this story was told to me by one of the most centered, balanced people I've ever met in my life. And when he told me that story, something just clicked and I went, oh, yeah. And then I say that now, but yet 15 years ago. Ten years ago, I was still caught up in the this is the only truth, I think, to answer your question, that's probably what I've learned the most in all this, is that it's not possible for one person or one modality to explain it all.
And when a lot of metaphysics out there, metaphysicians out there believe that this is the way that it is, we go into the Akashic records to find our past lives, and it also explains what our karma is in this world. And we have soul circles that we incarnate with. Everyone talks about it as if it is definitive. This is the way that it is. Well, in essence, we're learning that maybe, but maybe it's not, because when you take all these modalities together, they don't add up. They don't easily come together like cogs in a wheel. They sometimes contradict each other. So how is that possible? And that was the thing I was the most conflicted about with all this, is like, I can't put this modality with this one and make it make sense.
They're not compatible, so how could they possibly both be true? Well, I've learned that they are.
The reason why they are the way that they are is because not any of us have the exact same path. And all of these modalities are equally important and real because we've all, to your point, have created them. We manifest we create our own reality. And for me, this is the path that I manifested. For me, Karen manifests a different one. You manifested yet another one. Everyone listening to the show is manifesting their own path forward, and they're all 100% legit. And that's what I found the most. That's what I've debunked the most about metaphors. There is no one way.
[00:41:31] Speaker C: And this is a huge change for Will. We go back to that story about my daughter in the preschool. I remember that argument. It was one of the biggest arguments we've ever had. I wanted her to go to that school. He did not. And I remember saying, well, she's going to learn from us what we learn at home, and if they teach her something, it's not going to harm her. And good for them for believing that strongly in something. I wish I had something that I had that much faith in. And he's like, well, they have that much faith, but it's in the wrong thing. And just adamant about that was wrong. And so, yeah, I don't believe in all of it. He doesn't believe in all of it. Our daughter doesn't either, but it doesn't mean it was wrong. So it's so refreshing. Every time I hear him talk about how he feels now, I'm like, It's night and day. It's night and day.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: When it comes down to a religion, it's just another path. It's just valid.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: I understand that from the perspective of being that there is a multithreaded universe with multithreaded experiences. And we have all got our own channel that we're actually in, which is probably just tailored for our experience so we can evolve in our own little special way, which is all important. It's all important. But that doesn't mean everything's the same for everyone, which is good. It's a good thing.
[00:42:46] Speaker A: Yeah. How boring would it be if it was all the same?
Here's your ABCs. Here's your step by step instruction manual to Ascend.
I'd like one of those.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: I mean, that wouldn't be so bad.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: Maybe you're going to write it? I don't know.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: I think we've got enough modalities. Karen we should totally do that.
[00:43:09] Speaker C: Totally. Make it a flip book.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Pop up book.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Open randomly at a page. There we go.
[00:43:18] Speaker A: As long as it's not a scratch and sniff, we're good.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: Okay, what modalities or practices have you discovered through your podcast that have had a profound impact on your own.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Starting with the very first? Right. Meditation.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. Key.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. In fact, if I don't meditate every day, if there's one day that I don't meditate, karen bangs on my door and begs me to please go meditate.
[00:43:58] Speaker C: I send them off. Go meditate. Now.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: The only time I've ever gone off the rails in my life is when I actually stopped meditating, just to see what happened. And it just went awful. And as soon as I started meditating again, everything was good.
Got to keep that practice.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: Definitely.
It just helps you to harmonize your vibrations with that universe or something. It just becomes things flow.
And I don't meditate. Suddenly I'm like I'm in the box.
But meditation just kind of flows so nice.
[00:44:34] Speaker C: And I had the hardest time with it just because I think all the time, and then one day it just kind of clicked and yeah, you just go from it being a chore and sometimes still, I'm like, oh, do I have time? But once I'm in it, I don't want to leave. Then I'm like, I probably should get to work, kind of get out of this.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: I think they call us bliss bunnies when that happens. We don't leave. We just want to stay in the bliss all the time. We're bliss bunnies.
[00:44:57] Speaker B: That's a good thing.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: You embrace as much bliss as you can because it seems like life challenges do actually fall upon us quite often nowadays. So we've got to go along with that, too. And I mean, the good thing about meditation, though, I find, is it actually adds deep resilience to things. So things just wash off you much easier. Like oh, okay. That's happened. Rather than falling in a pothole, looking up and going, oh, no, I'm in a pothole.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
In fact, I think that if I hadn't found meditation when I did, I don't know that I would have survived some of the things that have happened since, because I still had very strong reactions in a negative sense. While I was meditating. I can't imagine how much stronger I would have reacted had I not been meditating.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, meditation is definitely key. My wife has a similar trouble to Karen when it comes to the talking in the mind. I mean, here's a monkey mind. She talks in her head all the time, but she found for herself one day she was meditating, and she got to this spot, and she said, I found this spot between talking, and it was really deep. And I said that's meditation.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: Right?
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Do that more.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: So answer a question for us.
Do you have narration going on in your mind all the time?
[00:46:17] Speaker B: No.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: See, David, see, I have this voice in my head that is constant. Like, I see Karen walk down the street. I think, oh, there's Karen walk down the street. And right after that, I hear a voice in my head saying, here comes Karen down the street. Damn it, I already know that. Why do you got to tell me that? Woman's coming down the street. I'm in the shower thinking, okay, today's Thursday. Okay. Today's Thursday. Oh, did you know today's Thursday? Oh, my God. I know. Today's Thursday. Shut up. Right? There's a narrative in my head that doesn't stop. It never stops. And I think that's probably why I resonate with Michael Singer's work so much, because I read The Surrender Experiment, and in that book, he talks about this voice that's constantly in his head, and I felt it.
That's it. That's what I'm feeling. And he spent his entire life trying to find a way to shut that voice up, and that's what thrust him into meditations. And that, I think, is probably why I enjoy it so much, because it does give me a chance to just shut the voice up. Get silence.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I say. Also, then, a part of that shutting the mind up is to do things that ground you. Like go into nature. Go for a walk, exercise. That helps, too. And also keeping away from coffee any stimulants like that.
Look, I love coffee, too, but I.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Know yeah, I'm just glad I didn't have it, but no, I agree. Nature is so key. When I don't get out of nature for too long, I do go crazy. And I grew up in the rural part of the country, and my backyard was the woods, and I spent almost my entire summer out in the woods.
[00:48:07] Speaker B: That's cool.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: And, yeah, it was magical. And then you move, you get older, you go somewhere else. You live in New York City, you're looking, and suddenly nature is not the same, and you become disconnected and you forget. But every time I go into nature now, it reminds me it reconnects me. However, you know what? I have the narrative saying, hey, you're being connected to nature.
This is a great little walk. Look at that tree. Oh, my gosh.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Go ahead.
[00:48:41] Speaker C: No, I was going to say, we haven't been getting out a whole lot lately, so we probably could use a.
[00:48:46] Speaker A: Little bit more of that. That could be true. Yeah. We need to go connecting it.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Good idea.
How do you navigate the fine line between skepticism and open mindedness when you're exploring the metaphysical topics?
[00:49:00] Speaker A: Great question.
Do you want me to answer?
[00:49:04] Speaker C: Well, I think we're both a little bit different, I think, in that regard, because I'm not really skeptical about a lot, because I do. I just feel like everyone has their own life and their own experiences, and just because it's not real to me doesn't mean it's not real to them. So I haven't really felt compelled to have to make that decision. Yes or no, really, about much. I mean, the one guy that was tricky, but that was also earlier on, too. So I've evolved since then. The one guy, the one about everyone said, yeah, the lights.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Thank you. We should bring it back then.
[00:49:40] Speaker C: We should.
Yeah. I think you probably get a better answer from Will for that.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Well, when we first started, I was very skeptical. I needed to feel it, touch it, taste it. I need proof. I can't just believe something just because you say it's the case. I need to have experiential truth behind it. I need to wrap my head around it somehow. And I've learned through the last few years that the act of demanding proof is exactly the reason why I'm not getting because I'm not opening myself up to the possibility of being shown the mysteries.
The reason why science will never be able to measure the weight of a soul, for example, is because they can't fathom anything that can't be measured by instruments and can't be redone. I forgot the exact term is. But you can't recreate. You can't recreate it, then it can't be. And this world that we are exploring is so different. It is not at all rooted in the Newtonian physics. It is so far beyond it that there's no possible way that modern science will ever be able to measure these kinds of things. The scientists will always be skeptical.
So what I'm trying to do these days now is instead of demanding the proof, is maintaining more of an open mind and instead being pragmatic. So I don't want to say I'm skeptical anymore. I want to say I'm pragmatic in a way that, thanks to quantum physics, a lot more is open to my thought processes now. So as long as it makes certain amount of sense that what you're talking about or experiencing or doing or saying if it makes sense to you, then I'm not going to say debunk, try to debunk anything, because that's your reality, and I have to accept that. But I am going to ask questions like, was this induced by chemicals? Have you been drinking?
Did you sleep at all last night? Right. I'm trying to figure out. Is there a rational rational in quotation marks, explanation for what you're saying nine times out of ten in our conversations? There's not. And I've been presented with that enough times to finally go, I'm not going to be able to understand it, so I either accept it or not. And that's the bottom line.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: Okay, so with your program, what messages do you hope to convey to your listeners about the nature of reality and the limitless potential that's within us?
[00:52:34] Speaker C: I think you just said it. It's a limitless potential.
Everyone feels very constrained, I think, by life and by their abilities and their thoughts and what they're capable of, but it is absolutely limitless. And once you open your heart to that possibility or your brain or whatever to that possibility, and you really start to believe it, then you'll start to see everything happening and what has seemed OD or like magic or the woo becomes normal.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: Definitely.
Totally agree with that. That's excellent. That's excellent. So is there any questions that you would have me to have asked on this episode that I did not ask?
[00:53:16] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think I'm dressed pretty nicely. You might want to ask where I got the shirt, maybe.
[00:53:23] Speaker B: Excellent.
[00:53:25] Speaker A: I think that one thing I want to make sure to put out there, because I think it's important is one of the most important lessons that I've learned is the power of our own thoughts. The world that we're living in right now is so incredibly divided because we are dividing ourselves between those that are living in fear and those are living in love. And I sound like a crazy person talking about love. I totally understand, but I'm talking about our true nature. Our true nature is not conflict that's our physical body. When we were first evolving, we had to have this fear thing so that we could survive. We have to be afraid of predators. We have to be careful predators with that fear instilled in us was what made us able to survive. We are now beyond that. We've got to get to the point where that fear response is not the first thing we jump to. In fact, just the opposite. The more that we can lift ourselves up from fear and raise our vibrations up to love and love of yourself more than anything else. The more you love yourself, the more that you can actually then love others, and the more you can live a harmonious life, because we don't need that fear responsibly. The only thing that we need to fear right now are the people that are afraid because you never know how they're going to react. So if all of us unmasked decided to just put down the arms oh my God, it sound like a hippie from back in the 60s. But truly, if you just stop being afraid of each other and looked at each other for who we are, which is another soul another us, we are all one if we just realize that and live life that way oh, my God, what an amazing world we live.
[00:55:17] Speaker C: In then there wouldn't be any space for the fear. Because when the love is not there, something has to fill that void.
[00:55:24] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
That's a really nice place to, I think, end the show. That was a great summary and a deep understanding that I think everyone will resonate with. So I want to thank you to both Will and Karen from the Skeptic Metaphysicians podcast for being on the show. That was fantastic. I've really appreciated your time and your insights into everything.
[00:55:47] Speaker A: Thank you. This was so much fun.
[00:55:48] Speaker C: It was. Thank you.
[00:55:49] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, then I'll say bye for now.
Well, what a blast. That was such a pleasure to meet both Will and Karen of the metaphysical Skeptic. Actually get that the right way around. The skeptic metaphysicians podcast. Now, that was what I would call a meandering conversation. It just wanders and things come out, and I find that often those sort of ones are more authentic and deeper. I did actually add in some questions there that I actually had pre prepared, but a lot of that stuff just flowed and it was very deep and opening for myself in some ways. I got some insights about my own personal growth aspects that I didn't have before, and I also got more understanding of how other people see things. I mean, I did pretty much grow up being a lot more like Will and then turned a lot more like Karen over time. Although I did have a lot of metaphysical experiences myself when I was very young, so it was very interesting to actually sit there with that and realize that and see how that had changed me. So, yeah, it's interesting that our cosmology changes over time, and I look forward to having more amazing guests like Karen and Will on, and I'm going to be on their show, too, so I look forward to that happening and I'll announce it when it actually happens. So thank you very much for listening. If you enjoyed it as much as I did, please share the show to your friends and family. And if you could, please, dear listeners, rate the show really highly on your favorite podcast app. Give it me a five star rating, and also, if you can, write a really nice positive blurb about the show, that way people can find the show through the algorithms as well. So thank you so much for your time and I look forward to you listening next week. So bye for now.
[00:57:51] Speaker A: You one.
