Can Joining Cults Lead to Spiritual Awakening? Andy's Journey

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You can't control what goes on in this world. That's not what you can do. But you can control how you react to it. Right? That's the one. That's the one thing you can do, is you can control how you react any given situation. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Welcome to Super Normalize. Today I'm talking to Andy Wingrave. He is the host for his YouTube channel, Andy joins Cults. And I've got to say I've watched one of his videos last night, and what a presentation he had been a part of the Star Magic healing cult in Egypt on a journey that went in an unusual direction he did not expect. And I'll get into that in the episode, but let's just say it's one of these stories that makes you go, oh, my God, that's huge. And he's a very honest guy. He's grounded. He's been through a life that we all go through. Struggled with earlier youth, even though he had everything, depressed, came out of that and found his way towards spirituality and a grounded understanding of the world that he's still exploring. And he does so through his videos and he joins cults on YouTube. So this is going to be a great episode to watch. Make sure you watch all the way to the end because there's so much more in it than I expected. I mean, I didn't know where this could go. And Andy is so clear and so honest and so open about his understanding. I'm sure you'll enjoy on with the show. Before I get into this episode, I'm going to say that one thing you need to understand as a listener is that there is an explanation of Ansi's suicide experience. And if that's triggering for you, maybe switch this one off. But. But he has some views which are very controversial and I may leave them in or may take them out, but it'll still give a rounded understanding of what happened to him at that time. So, yeah, please be aware of that. Looking at the statistics that I have for YouTube and for my podcast apps, I have a lot of listeners and viewers that aren't yet liked and subscribed. So if you're on YouTube, like, and subscribe, it's free. And if you're on a podcast app, please give me five stars. That'd be really cool. It helps other people find these great conversations, too. Thank you. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Hey, Dan. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Sorry, mate. I. I've got to say that whenever I've had potential conversations that might upset those that control reality. All right. In different ways, but this is the first time they've actually literally pulled out all my drivers from the microphone. I was. I had recorded a video just before meeting with you. Everything was fine, so I expected all the settings to be exactly the same. So I just jumped in the room and it was like, what drive? This is insane. So downloaded, refreshed, and we're in here now. So welcome to Super Normalized. Andy. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Thanks very much. I'm excited to be on Super Normalized. Nice to meet you. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Yeah, good to meet you too. I watched last night your episode summarizing your experiences with some challenging people. That happened about three months ago. That was really interesting for me because I had an encounter myself with a reptilian girl. She came into my life and basically turned it upside down. And it was really bizarre how things rolled out with her. And in the end, she actually exposed herself to me one time in a very vulnerable situation and. And her mask came off and I said. I looked at her and I was like, my God, she's a beautiful lizard. Wait a minute. She's a reptilian. And it blew my mind. And I said, you're a reptilian? She goes, no, you are. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, I know what you are now, so thank you. And we didn't last long after that, I can tell you. [00:04:10] Speaker A: That makes sense. Yeah, I can see that. [00:04:15] Speaker B: So you've had a bit of a huge journey in your life, going through many processes of self discovery. And how far do you want to go back? [00:04:27] Speaker A: Wherever you want to start. I mean, I. Self discovery is definitely where it started. I ended up. If you're talking about the star magic stuff, I ended up on that tour completely by accident. Like, I kind of. I didn't do any research. I just wanted to go to Egypt. So my worldview at that point of time, that point in time was very, let's go to Egypt. See Egypt, like a normal person. And I Googled, like, spiritual tour of Egypt or something. Basically ended up. Ended up, like, on this thing. And I was just like, this guy is very strange. And I didn't. And I had a camera with me and I thought, well, I'll interview him and see what's going on. And he seemed like there was lots of, like, very suspicious behavior immediately. Like, as a. As the. As I joined that group, like, he didn't know my relationship with him, which was basically zero. I'd never looked at his YouTube. If I'd looked at his YouTube, I would never have gone like, the guy's nuts. He's got like a song called Spiritual Gangster. And it's him rapping about being a spiritual gangster. I really should have liked, I really should have done a modicum of research. But if I didn't do, if I did that I probably wouldn't be here talking about it. So as was it. Yeah, but because I wouldn't have gone on the thing. But it was, it was just very strange. Like he was doing things like immediately like love bombing me. Like I love you man. And I'm like, I don't even know you. I mean, great, I love that you love me and whatever but just like a lot of this stuff and I just thought, right, okay, I need to like navigate this and figure out like what I'm doing here. So started interviewing him. I found him very like curious and, and he was very, very keen to get me like to join his company and to like do all this and, and I was like, no, no chance. Like I'm here, I'm interviewing you. But like there's no, this is not like a, like I wasn't very interested in, in, in becoming closer to him. I, I found it very strange. So yes, like fast forward to the like maybe the eighth day on that tour, I joined a, a ceremony, a mushroom ceremony on the Nile which I, I kind of had hesitations about but I mean a lot of reservations about it really. But I thought, well, how often am I going to get the opportunity to do this? Like, so I did that and then I witnessed something. Having done many mushroom ceremonies in my life and I'd be very comfortable with psychedelics, I wasn't worried about it and I didn't have a bad time during the ceremony but I was able to watch, so I was able to watch how they held space, like what they were doing and yeah, like very, very clearly trying to create fear in people. Trying to like talk about shadow work and, and all this stuff which psilocybin is not really about. And it kind of like raised big alarm bells. Like having been many, many ceremonies that have been very safe and heart opening and beautiful experiences, what was going on there was very weird. And yeah, having the group doing this like kind of like doing a lot of like magic out in the open. Very, very like sigil magic or kind of like chanting and, and, and, and, and working with like. Yeah, working with what I presume to be, I don't, I don't want to say I know this for a fact, but presumed to be black magic in the sense that it was done without anybody's consent. It was certainly done without my consent and it was done for their own ends. So during this piece of this moment in time, that's when I kind of realized like, oh, like this, this guy basically as you said earlier, like, kind of like become this, become something different than like his human physical form. Right. Like, I don't know how he did that. It didn't seem plausible to me. And at the point in my life I didn't really have any conceptual way of understanding was only until it was only afterwards where I realized like ah, like actually I'm going to go look at this and, and understand it and like see what it could be. And I came to the conclusion like that this person could very well be a reptilian being. And, and I would stand by that. My assessment, whatever I said in my documentary, I stand by whatever I said in that. But it's been a while since I recorded it and yeah, it was an intense experience and it was very clear to me that this guy was a predator. Like he was certainly like acting upon like with a predatory intentions and I didn't have very good impression of him overall. So yeah, I got the hell out of there. And, and, and that really kind of started off like my, the concept of my channel, my YouTube channel, which like I was like well I've recorded this stuff, I don't know how to explain it. Maybe I'll just chuck out there. Maybe some people can like interpret it and see what, what they think. I definitely didn't feel worried about like leave like putting this stuff out there. As somebody who like this stuff was very new to me. I didn't feel psychotic. I didn't feel like it was in any way like I'd lost my sense of reality. I felt like this was a very strange thing to have experienced and I wanted to share that like with the understanding that hey, I don't know what's going on. This seemed very strange. This guy's a weirdo. Like what I'm witnessing is predatory like cult like practices. And, and yeah, like maybe I can go and explore more of these things that are a little less dangerous. Like things that are being called cults that maybe maybe could, could do with a better naming of that. Right? Like, so I, I joined a few other things which we can talk about if you want. But there's some things that been really, really positive in my life and, and some things that have also kind of like yeah, just help, help me understand this reality a little bit better. If anybody can understand that at all. I think anybody who pretends to understand what's going on in this reality is either a scoundrel, because anybody does. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Look, I've got to say that, you know, the idea of your YouTube channel called Andy Joins Cult is fantastic because, you know, these things need to happen so people can actually see the frameworks that we're all living within. Because a lot of the world actually is very cult like when it comes to its programming and everything. So to even go and do that is brave, I would say, for one thing, because I've had experience with cults in the past rescuing a girlfriend from one at the time. And the cult leader come up to me and like you said, love bobbing me. And I'm like, I don't know you, bro. I don't know why you're doing this. This is odd. And that just triggered all this stuff for me. And I did trauma based mind control and then realized what he was doing. I was like, oh, that's not very good. So there's a lot, all credits to you for doing that. But I've got to say too that when you were doing the, you know, the video and you were talking about how you were protecting yourself and then also putting up a framework to say, I don't, I don't agree to rituals and any of these incantations and everything like that as a part of your breaking away from that situation, that's fantastic. Most people aren't aware to do that. So, you know, I do give you massive credit for that. And I wish more people were aware that spirits do actually have such a strong effect upon ourselves. And there are actual races which are universal, maybe intraterrestrial or ultra terrestrial that actually do have nefarious sort of plans. And they are here. I've experienced them too. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, I think that was something that I learned is the, the really you are as in terms of like how you interpret the world. Thinking about like the concept of protection and understanding that like you are a conscious being and you have influence over how you interpret the world. Right. Like you can. If you, if you think everybody's out to get you, they probably are. Right. Like if you think the world's a wonderful place full of beautiful, amazing people, it probably is. And, and it's like the, the conceptualization of individual perspective on reality is, is not really taught to us. So like, basically we can be living in this entire. That we're all sharing this reality, we're all sharing this world. But like there are so many different. There's a big spectrum of like what that reality means to people. Like some people just think they're really lucky and then they just become really lucky or unlucky and, or depressed or whatever. And it like it snowballs, right, because you create, you create your own reality based on the senses that you have to interpret this reality and then you create your own truth. So back to your point about like protecting myself. It's like understanding that like I, I don't allow that there's somebody else to hijack my consciousness. I don't allow somebody to like influence me in a way that I don't agree to. I don't allow somebody to, to, to, yeah. Perform incantations on me. All of these kind of things. They can't affect you if you don't agree to it. Right. Like if you believe that you're a victim and this is how they get you. This is how like a lot of these cults, a lot of these people will prey on people. And it's not just like weird cults. It's like, like you can call our entire like mainstream culture a call as well. It's like how they get you just by, by how they program your, your mind and how they believe, like make believe that you either need them or that they've got power over you or whatever. And if you believe that, it's true ultimately. And, and it's kind of like a lot of, a lot of what I was, I chose to do at that moment was go, right. Like, I don't, I can't really go off this boat, but like I can also choose to like detach myself from whatever they, they want to, to, to involve me in because it's not of interest to me. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The awareness is actually what counts. And you're speaking there to sort of like a co creation sort of experience of reality too. And it's good to actually have your own contracts with yourself and what you'll agree to. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:15:49] Speaker B: So yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I had an experience like I, I didn't believe in possession, for example, for myself at all. Didn't believe it because I had, I had like a spiritual sort of bent, but also had a bit of a scientific, you know, reasoning mind as going alongside that at the same time and as a part of that was like, well, no, possession is just a psychological event. And that's what I believed until I was possessed. And then when I was possessed and I had two other entities inside me trying to derail every part of my life and I could hear them planning and plotting besides my own personal inner voice. Then at that point, I was like, oh, my God, this is actually something else that's here and it's here inside me. And I had to exercise that. And as a part of that exorcism, it took a series of months with the help of another shaman. That was very, very helpful. But at one stage, they attempted to indoctrinate me again through a dream. And I thought I was actually sitting at my computer reading something on the screen, but it turned out, and I was reading, I was like, what? This is an incantation? Then I woke up. Wait a minute. No, no, no, no, no. That's not happening. And I had to pull back. And as I pulled back, they got angry. I could sense their anger and caused all this drama around me and everything. And I was like, okay, no, no, no, this is not going to happen again. So, yeah, now working from the other. [00:17:08] Speaker A: Side, so I'll change your mind. I think a lot of these things, yeah, they exist, right? They absolutely exist. And it's also. It's important to just kind of have this open mind, right? Like I was saying earlier, like, anybody who purports to know anything about this reality, like, I don't know, like, it's a very. Like, we can pretend it's all normal. We can pretend this, like, this whole thing, this whole charade of, like, getting up in the morning, going to get to work, and, like, voting for your president and all of this nonsense. Like, we can pretend it's all real, and we can pretend these people are in charge, and it's all, like, I. I really like, on these podcasts, or I've been doing a lot of these. A few of these podcasts, and I like. I guess, like, I. If I want to, like, share something, I think, like, one of the things that I want to, like, help, like, just kind of, like, plant a seed out there, is that, like, this is all a charade, right? Like, we collectively, now we've got the technology. We can talk to, like, a Chinese person, can talk to a Russian person, can talk to a UK or US Person, talk to a Spanish person, right? And at some point, we'll all figure out that these people that we vote for, that we pretend are leaders, like, they're. They're all at it, and they're just, like, dragging us along. So what we could effectively just choose to do, like, really, as a human race, forget about the differences between all of us and whatever is, like, first of all, go admit, like, none of us know what the fuck's going on. And then second of all, go like why don't we just. Like we're all here. Nobody, most, most people don't want to fight. Most people don't want to put billions and trillions of dollars into like a war machine. Why don't we just sack all the people running the show? Like just forget. Off you go. Go to an island. Enjoy your retirement. See you later. Yeah, just figure out like, guys, you know when you sing to water, it like creates these beautiful crystals. Or have you had the DMT experience? What the hell is that? Like these things are like, why are these not the front page news? I have no idea. Right, like, like man has like near death experience in a DMT trip or whatever, meets entities and realizes that we're all God, right? Like, or something, right? Like, why is that not front page news instead of like, like whatever's going on in the Middle east and stuff? Because we, we can stop that like very, very quickly. But we're, but back to the concept of like indoctrination and like, and hypnotism. Like we're all hypnotized to believe, like, oh no, this is actually going on and this is nothing to do with us. And I hope our president can solve it. Our president, whoever your president is, is the cause of it. We need to like, they're the terrorists, our government or the terrorists and we need to basically get rid of them and then, and then figure out what we can do as a human race. That's like, my belief is like, if we can all figure that out, just going, right, let's start again. Like we've got this far. That's brilliant. We've all got Apple Max now. What actually can we do to like solve world hunger and figure out like what's going on in this world and figure out what this reality could be? Like what it actually could be because we're in control of that. So a lot of these entities talking about possession, talking about all of these like talking about channeling, talking about all this other stuff that's going on. This super like crazy and spooky and weird and cool. Like there's all of this, there's all of this stuff, mad stuff going on in the world and, and nobody's got any clue about what's going on. So why don't we just like take a pause, stop killing each other, fighting and just like, and start going, right, what could, what the hell's going on? Really? Like, I don't know, like, that's my real belief is that we need to like, we're kept in this Loop of, like, trauma and fear and, like. And believing that the people we vote for have any, like, are good, benevolent beings. They're not. They're possessed in a different way. They're possessed by something like some kind of, like, energy that's. That's then being passed on to us, and we believe it. [00:21:27] Speaker B: All right, well, I agree with you. With your greater reset, it actually makes a lot of sense to me and sag them all. I'm on board. I'm on board. That's. That would be. That would be exposing. We'll just see how that goes. And. But it does seem like we're actually leaning more into that sort of thing over time. Most common people now are starting to even talk about things that I've known for, you know, for my whole life when it comes to an understanding of how things work. So, you know, it does seem that that's changing. I. I believe it's polarity. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Right. Like, the pen. Like, if it swings all the way to that way, it's got to swing back. So, yeah, I think that's what we're in the middle of. And that shift is happening, like, in. In. In many ways across the world. So I. I really do think it is happening. And I hope it doesn't take, like, a big event for people to be like, oh, what are we doing? Like, that would be. That would suc. That could be where it's leading, and I hope it doesn't. [00:22:25] Speaker B: But, yeah, we've had that. I think we've already had the. One of the biggest ones, which was 2020 and all that craziness. Yeah. Do you mind if we circle back to your early life and go through some of that story? Because I found that really fascinating as well. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Sure. Like, so, I mean, depends where you want. So. I was very much asleep for a long time. For the longest time, actually. I mean, I had a good job. I had a. Like, I was relatively smart. Right. But, like, asleep as hell. And that was like, the expectedness of. Of. Of like, not really knowing what's going on. Like, my, My understanding of this reality is. Or at least in the western realities, they try and, like, shuffle you through to, like, death really fast. Right. You go to school. Don't ask questions. Here's the thing. Here's what we, like, learn what we tell you. You go to university. Okay. Don't ask questions. Get your degree or whatever. You get a job, and then you got rent to pay. And then you're like, before you know it, you're getting up every day and, like, oh, wow, I've got a kid now or whatever. You've got, like, like, so I was in that. I was in that cycle of just being like shuffled through life of like, okay, I've got a job now. Like, this is what I'm meant to do, right? And I kind of lost any connection to spirituality around about the age of like 12. I was like, I grew up Catholic and, and I felt like very much like antagonized by that religion. I felt like it was an antagonistic religion. The entire purpose of Catholicism is actually so that people don't realize who they are, what they are, right? Like, in a sense, right? Like it's to completely separate you from God, right? Like, separate you from the idea that there's a big old man in the sky or whatever. Like there's something separate to you that you exist and must worship, right? Like, and completely eradicates the concept that you are what you should worship and you ought to be, understand, you ought to understand that we are collectively God, right? Like everything is God. There's no such thing as anything that's not. So, like, it separates you from that idea. Like, creates the concept of good and evil, judgment, bad and good, all these things. And I was like, none of it made sense. It was just like, this is nonsense. As like a 12 year old, I was like, so much had been done in religion's name. So I kind of like lost, fully lost any concept of spirituality for 18 years, right? So it was until I was 30 and I read probably the most spiritual book I've ever read, which is not a spiritual book actually at all. But at this point in my life, like, I'd been suffering like, depression. I had like depression for most of my entire teens and twenties, right? Like teens when she's super depressed because. Because I had this like oppressive world on, on me. And I didn't feel like I had any control. I just had to do what everybody else told me to do. Get a job, go to university, blah, blah, blah, do it, pay your bills. And none of it made sense to me, right? Really, really none of it made sense to me. So I was depressed for a good long while. Not like overtly, but internally very depressed. I was very functional. I could get up and go to work and stuff like that. And I never trusted pharmaceutical companies. So it left me at this point of my life where I turned 30 and I just moved back from Singapore and I looked in this mirror. I was at a barber shop and they were cutting my hair and I was really, really, really big at that point maybe like double the size I am now and was smoking, I was drinking and I looked in the mirror and I was just like, you need to sort yourself out, pal. And I read, like I said, one of the most spiritual books I've ever read is, and I've read a lot of actual spiritual books since was the Easy Way to Stop Smoking. And why was that a spiritual book? Well, one of the things was like, it helped me understand, it helped me understand like my connection to this reality in a way that, in a way that, that was so alien to me at the time. And basically, in a nutshell, the book like helps you stop smoking. Like you can read the book, you can smoke while you read the book. It helps you start stop smoking by changing, by changing a few key assumptions about what makes it hard to stop smoking. So the pharmaceutical companies, the doctor industry, like the general public will tell you it's really hard to stop smoking, right? Because there's an economy around it, right? And then there's economy around getting you to stop smoking. But this book just actually goes, you know what, like if you start with a feeling of elation, like imagine yourself as a non smoker, how will that feel? And know that you're in full control of your reality, then you don't need to listen to the people who tell you it's hard. You can just believe, truly believe it's easy. And I never smoked a cigarette since, right? So that's been 10 years ago. And that completely changed my understanding of reality because that wasn't the reality I'd been led to believe. I believe that reality was pretty much fixed, right? Like whatever people are saying, people say it's hard to stop smoking. I guess it must be hard to stop smoking. But actually if you believe it's easy, then you can do that. And did that with alcohol, stop drinking alcohol, stop gambling at the time and just all of these things. So that led me to free up my time. I started doing improv, I started like meditating. That was a huge, huge change in my life, a massive shift in my life, which I still maintain. And, and from there, yeah, like I was able to start my own company. I started my own like consultancy and just understanding really like we have this like, we have this amazing ability to create like as beings. That is one thing we all share is like the ability to like turn nothing, turn an idea into something. At some point you decided to create a podcast. And here we are, we're talking, we're talking about weird shit and like, and it's great, right? Like, that's what we're doing. And you had that idea and you brought it from nothing into reality. And that's how this reality is shaped, right? Bringing an idea into this physical realm and really starting to understand over time my ability to manifest the reality I want to create, right? Like, which is a beautiful thing, and hone that and develop it and use that. And it all started with that book of, like, how the easy way to stop smoking. And then from there, like, from meditation, from starting my own business, from creating a life that I wanted. I really started diving into, like, more esoteric realms of, like, teachers that are incredibly impactful to me. Like, starting off with, like, people like Alan Watts and Osho and a few other people just who really, like, challenged my understanding of what reality was. And. And through that, got very interested in tantra, got very interested in, like, I. I was practicing breath work for a while, like, healing things and doing inner child work. And, yeah, like, my spiritual journey has been very much accelerated in the last five years, particularly after I started doing tantra, practicing tantra and learning about that. Because this stuff is wild, right? Like, this stuff is unbelievably, like. I mean, you can pick any path, right? It doesn't need to be tantra. It can be yoga, it can be Kabbalah, it can be whatever, right? Like, it can be. It can be like, I don't know, cashmere Shaivism. It can be like, there's so many. There's so many ancient modalities to help, like, actually find your place in this world. Like, pick one, right? They all get to the same point, right? They all get to the. It's the same. The same mountain, different paths up the mountain. And tantra, for me, is particularly appealing because it doesn't. It's not like a. It's not a aesthetic path, right? You don't need to go into a cave in the mountains and live there with nothing. Like, you could. Tantra is about experiencing life and really, like, connecting with this reality in a conscious way. So that's. That's my spiritual story in a nutshell. I still feel like a novice. I still feel like I've got a lot to learn and a lot to grow and a lot to do and. But I feel. Yeah, I feel like a big part of my growth has been, like, diving into yoga and tantra and spiritual teachings as well. So that's definitely the path I'm on at the moment. [00:31:13] Speaker B: It's a good path, definitely, because it helps you to be grounded but also connected to spirit at the same time. So you did mention that you killed yourself successfully. Do you want to talk about that? [00:31:24] Speaker A: Yep. So when I was about 28, like I said, I was super depressed. And this is like, yeah, it's about two years before I read this book, right? So, like, and like I said, it was just a random book. It was like, it got me on a path of going, huh? I can actually. I can create the reality I want. I can choose to do that, right? That's. That's what, that's the way I am. But. But yeah, like two years before that, I was living in London and I was just depressed. I hated life. I was getting up. I had a great job. I had like a. I had an awesome job with an awesome, awesome people working in an awesome place. And I felt devoid of, like, Felt like life was devoid of meaning. I really wasn't in a happy place. But at the same time, like, like I said, functional and all the rest of it. But, like, my life mostly consisted of, like, getting up, going to work, being, like, kind of miserable in work and not feeling fulfilled and, like, feeling like I was chasing the next promotion or bullshit fucking pay rise or whatever. Like, feeling very much like. Like a beggar in this world, like, oh, give me the promotion that'll make me happy. Give me the money, like, all of this stuff. And like, my. My weekends consisted mostly of, like, drinking or smoking weed and gambling and like, maybe playing the video game. Play video games. So it was like, it was a very desolate, like, monotonous life full of like, dopamine hits, of just like a life that quite honestly, most people live right actually at this moment in time with tech talk and whatever. So I was living that life and I wasn't feeling fulfilled. And I. I made a very good, like, a few attempts. I can give you an exact breakdown of what happened and how it happened and like, what actually occurred. But basically a being came to me. What was this being? I don't know. Was it myself? Maybe? Was it an angel? Maybe? Was it like, it was something, right? It was like a being that was like talking to me and said. Said to me, not really in English, like in some language that I seem to understand. It wasn't like a garbage. It wasn't a different language. It was just like an intuitive knowing of what was transpiring between us. But I can't explain it more than that. This being came to me and was like, look, this is all paraphrased, but, like, this is the gist of the thing. Nobody's mad. And honestly, like. And you do not need to go back. Nothing will make you go back. You do not need to. But then they said, if you do, I promise you, I promise you it gets so much better. And, and it's. Whatever happened. I made the decision to go back and then the next thing I was being woken up by my flatmate and then anyway, I went down, had the cigarette with my flatmate and my family didn't know what had gone on. But like, like, we didn't actually, like, talk about it. Like we just had a cigarette and then I went to bed and. And yeah, like, I don't know what happened. I don't know how to explain that, but that's the gist of it. And, and honestly, things didn't get better for the next two years. They didn't. They. I was like that thing that being lied to me, I was, I was like, yeah, like, things just did not get better. But having said that, over the last 10 years, things have. I've got much better for me, right? Like, I've not had depression in 10 years. I've not had any of these thoughts or, or any of these things happen in like 10 years. As soon as I started meditating, getting off of like, the drugs, getting off of like, like the, these types of things and bringing more and more space into my life for joy and gratitude and all of these things. It's impossible to be depressed at that point. Once you start really doing that work. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah, you'll fill it up with the goodness and then the darkness stays away. I can understand that. I've got a resonant with you there. When it comes to the early life with the difficulties and stuff and depression myself, I had really dark sort of depression phases and, and I did attempt a few times myself, but I, I wasn't successful. But yeah, so it's good that you, you know, you discovered that path from that point, even though it didn't happen instantly and you probably felt a little tricked to come back to tricked. [00:35:50] Speaker A: I felt like. I felt like I didn't understand. Right. Like, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't a feeling of being tricked. It was just a feeling of like, maybe, like maybe I imagined it, maybe that, like, didn. Like, it was more like. It was more like the doubting, the idea that that happened at all rather than feeling tricked by the entity. Because, Because I don't believe I had an undeniable experience. I know I had that experience and I remember it, but it's also like full of vagaries and full of 12 years, like, distance in that moment. So I don't know. I couldn't tell you what happened. And it definitely wasn't undeniable, but there definitely was that remembrance in the next morning of, like, I chose this. I chose to come back. So whatever I do, like, there's not. There's not really an option like, that. The option. The concept of, like, ever trying that again, like, has never even occurred to me, like, since, like, yeah, for about 10 years, purely because, like, life did start incrementally getting better. And. And, like, what I feel like most people don't know in this world is, like, as I alluded to earlier, right? Like, if you believe something, it's true, right? If you believe you're lucky, it's true. If you believe you're depressed, it's true. So it's like unwinding some of those programs is so important, right? Like, if you've got a depression or whatever, like, getting that, like, that becomes like a big snowball. It just gets bigger and bigger every day. You create more thoughts that reinforce the belief, and the belief becomes reality, and then. And that becomes your reality. So you're depressed and you're lost and whatever. But, like, what I found was, like, you can, like, melt that snowball and start another snowball, right? That snowball can just be of joy and, like, joy for life. Like, nothing could make. Could take that away from me of just being, like, absolutely in awe of this experience we get to have as humans. And I still have that, like. Like, I still have that in every moment of every day. And then it's just, like, magnified when I look up at the stars or I look at the sun or I look at the moon or I look at the ground, or I look at the fact, the landscape, or whatever I'm being. Or whatever I'm doing. I'm in full awe of this mad life that I get to live and that we all get to live. And to me, this is the biggest danger that's been created in our Western culture, but in our culture globally as well, is that all has been removed from most people's lives. It's just like, most people are just like, the awe is not there. The wonder is not there. It's gone. And that was certainly my experience of growing up until I was about 30. [00:38:36] Speaker B: Well, I think when we're all young and freshly born and walking around looking at everything with fresh eyes, that wonder is there, but it gets stolen by reality in some way and covered up with conditioning and Social constructs and social expectations and, you know, and it sounds like you've found a great way to escape, which is becoming mindful of how beautiful everything really is. [00:39:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it's mad. It's really mad. And it never stops. And like, the awe never stops. And once you can get to this point in your life, like, I don't know, I don't like talking about it too much at this point because. Because I've reached a stage in my life where, like, my life is just a unbelievable journey of wonder and synchronicity and strange coincidences and things that just keep happening and taking me to a place that just things keep getting better and better and things keep getting more interesting and more. The things that I'm bringing in and things that I'm wanting to bring more of into my life just keep happening. So a beautiful thing, and it's a beautiful thing to experience. And yeah, like, if I had. If I had like, some goal in mind in the next. Like, if I could have in the next 10 years, would just be to like to maybe just talk about this stuff a bit more and a bit more, like, give it a bit more breathing room. Because I understand that there's so many people are lost and depressed and finding life very difficult and. And I found a magic key to, like, change that. It doesn't happen overnight, but, like, it certainly has unlocked a huge amount of abundance and beauty in my life that I cannot explain and I don't dare to explain. I'm just eternally grateful. So from changing that belief, do you. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Have any pro tips for people that are going through the darkness themselves and need a little bit of light? Is there anything that. Anything small that they can start with? [00:40:49] Speaker A: I think darkness is necessary. I think, like, ultimately in some way it's. It's like things can't just be like love and light. Right. Like I said earlier about polarity or the pendulum, I think the. The biggest trouble that people don't really realize is that whatever darkness they're going through, whatever pain they're going through, whatever negative feelings or perceptually negative feelings that they may experience are there to teach them something. It's there to teach. So you're going to keep experiencing that until you're open to learning, until you're open to listening to whatever that is there to teach you. And until you can do that, then you're going to keep re experiencing it. There's so many patterns in my life that I keep re experiencing. I'm not immune to it myself. I don't see it as darkness, but I see certain things in my life, patterns emerging. Even at this point in my life, having done a lot of work and I've done a lot of spiritual exploration and, and all this kind of stuff, like, things would just keep happening until you listen, until you're like, okay, what's going on here? Is this, Is this, Is this the. Is this how I want to live my life? Do I want to feel this way? A good example being somebody sent me a pissy email yesterday and like, two days ago, right? And like, I. I read it and, like, I could feel myself, like, getting angry about it. She didn't listen to this thing, whatever. And this is. Yeah, so, like, talking about small tips, it's like being aware, noticing. Okay, Like, I, like that person is not making me angry. I'm making me angry, right? Like, so I am choosing to interpret this interaction in a way that's causing anger in me. I could choose many other emotions, right? I could choose, once I become conscious of the anger or that frustration, to. To bring some levity into the situation, to bring some peace into the situation, to not be bothered by it, right? Like, there's so many choices that you can make, and, and it's. Until you realize that you're in full control of the choices and of how you can't. Okay, Unless you're some amazing mystic, right? And even then, you can't control what goes on in this world. That's not what you can do. But you can control how you react to it, right? That's the one. That's the one thing you can do is you can control how you react to any given situation. So that does bring up the idea that, like, yeah, to your point, like, giving any advice. I don't like to give any advice because it assumes that I know what I'm doing when I've got no clue what I'm doing. So first of all, always caveat that with, don't listen to me. I don't have any clue what's going on. But second of all, like, if you do care to understand, like, my own perception of things, it's like, I do believe that you have the control or you do have the ability to control how you choose to react to any given situation. Whatever that situation is is your choice. And, and that's Zen, right? Like, that's the whole. That's the whole philosophy of Zen, right? Like, there's no such thing as good or bad. It's just like the thing that you thought was bad two years ago might have brought you to something amazing, like two years later, and that thing might bring you to something again which is not so good. But it's just a stance of life that you can exist in and ultimately comes down to being aware of that, right? So you can bring awareness into your daily life. Whether that's meditation, whether that's just. Just be becoming the witness of like watching what's going on, right? Watching from a detached perspective, right? Like you're not, you're not your personality, you're not your body. You are an infinite being, right? Like you're an infinite being. You're an infinite being that's watching this, participating and being this moment, right? Because this moment is all that exists, right? Like, so if you can bring that awareness and it will at some point give you the uncomfortable truth that you are creating that and nobody else's, right? If you're upset, if you're miserable, if you're depressed, you're creating it. And that can go one of two ways. It can be very difficult for people to hear and you can push that away, but it's a truth. And if you open up to that truth and take the other path, which is, well, if I'm creating it, what else could I create? And how could I create a different scenario and own that, own that concept that you are, that you are creating your own reality, then it can start to shift your. How you choose to react to any given situation. But like I said, I'm not the best person to talk about this because somebody sent me an email yesterday and I was getting super angry. So, like, I'm not, I'm not exactly the, the practicer of what I'm preaching here. [00:46:08] Speaker B: I'm still going to call you Saint Andy anyway because you're doing your best and that's what counts. So, Andy, your YouTube channel, Andy joins Cults. You've got a couple of playlists up there which people can go through and see your journeys into these cults. Do you have any plans for the next one that you're going to be pursuing? [00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so I've spent the last seven months joining cults, so I've got a lot to edit. So the first few that are up there at the moment of time of release are Star Magic Healing, Weird Ass Reptilian cult that I joined in Egypt and started the whole thing off. Then I did ista, which is like a sexual shamanic thing, like kind of like Tantra, but if you ask me, a little bit darker and a little bit weirder and definitely some cult vibes. Definitely some weird shit going on. I had a great time. It was an interesting experience for me. Great bunch of people. Like, there's certainly culty vibes there. There's certainly things that are aspects of cult, but I don't take the Reddit approach to cults. Right. Like, I don't believe that everything is called a cult is a bad thing. I think like that's, that word is being like charged in a way that like that creates a negative reaction. Which is why I called my channel Andy joins Cults. So like, yeah, like the jury's out on Esther. Like the videos are out. You can make up your own mind. I had a good time, honestly. I'll be, I'll be, I'll bring in something that I've not really spoken about, to be honest. I had another ISTA booked at this very moment. I was going to be in Georgia to go to another one and I canceled it. I wasn't. And like I decided it wasn't for me. And, and yeah, like, honestly I don't think I want to explore much more of that journey with this stuff. Maybe I will another day. But there's like, with any good, good upstanding cult, there's levels that you need to. And like, like these things are, I don't know, I need to get to the point where the channel is like, I can make it sustainable and I'm getting there. Like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a journey, not a destination. But. But yeah, like I definitely have some reservations, honest after some reflection. But yeah, that was the last one that was out. I did Medicine Festival, just got released and then I'm also doing. I also did a upcoming one on this tattoo that I got. I got a whole bunch of tattoos done as like, as part of a experience with a cult. As. Which is interesting. And then beyond that, yeah. I've joined some crazy ass things in the last few months and I'm looking forward to releasing them. My highlight over the last six months was I went to a Joe Dispenza retreat and that's been called quite cult. Like and I had the best time of my life. I love that man. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to go to one of his. [00:49:24] Speaker A: The guy is amazing. The guy is the real deal. Like I, I personally, I left that thing being like, I am so glad to share reality that Joe Dispenza also exists and like thinking about the man like could bring me to tears and I don't know, like, is it Cult? Like what he's doing. Is beyond meditation. He's doing something. He's doing, like, what he's doing is. Is like combining. In my opinion. This is just my opinion. This is not how he would position it, but, like, he's combining, like, deep, deep esoteric knowledge, deep spirituality, ceremonial magic, effectively, and science. And he's combining it all in a way that's like helping people, helping the world, and helping people imagine a different reality than we've got. And he does it all with a personality that's just. You just want to hug him. Like, the guy's amazing. He's so intelligent, but so humble and so, like. Yeah. So that was, like, my absolute highlight. And I'll be releasing that probably by, like, July, so. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Oh, I look forward to that one. Yeah. Yeah, No, I really like Joy Joe Dispenser. I call him Joy Dispenser myself because of the books that I've read and how it changed me as well and helped. Helped me as well. I've used. Did some of these meditations and, like, wow. Fix things. [00:50:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I love them. [00:50:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see you as a groundbreaker, and I really appreciate the work you're doing. It's just totally cool, you know, watching that video last night, your summary of the. The Star Magic cult, and that was really cool because my wife and I've had a lot of experiences with entities and all sorts of things, and it was just like, oh, wow, this guy knows. He knows exactly what's going on. [00:51:08] Speaker A: I mean, you. You say that I know nothing. Like, I don't know what's going on. So it's kind of like. But I was able to. I. I was able to. Yeah. Figure out. Figure out, like, how to express it in a way that made. Made sense for me. But. But, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, and it took me a while to release that video because it wasn't intentional. Like, I had no cl. Truly no clue what I was getting into. [00:51:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [00:51:35] Speaker A: And there was, like, a piece of me that was, like. Felt a bit like. I don't really want to. I don't really want to invite that guy Jerry into my life. Right. Like, I released a video. Like, what can he do? Like, I. I thought about it. It's like, can he sue me? Like, imagine going to court about being called a reptilian. That would be hilarious. Like, it'd be like, what can he do? Like, what can he actually do to me? And I couldn't see a reason not to release it. And I'VE had some good feedback from people who've watched it, like, who've had interactions with them. And like, some of it's been very positive, some of it's been a bit suspicious. But overall I feel like a net. Net positive that I released it. [00:52:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I've got to ask a question, though. You said that one of your friends was still there and in the video and you were reaching out to her to see how she was going. Did she. Is she okay? And did everything work out fine? [00:52:23] Speaker A: But she left the next day after I recorded that. So she was like. She recorded. She messaged me and was like, like, like, Andy, I'm not feeling safe here. And I'm like, what should I do? And I just said, get the. Out there. And she got out the next day and it was all good. But yeah, like, very, very clearly there was, There was. It wasn't like, covert, this is the thing. Like, it was like super open, nefarious stuff. Like, it felt predatory. It felt. It felt. It felt willful and intentional and. And not like, good vibes. So. But yeah, like, that's just the way things are, I think. Like, I tend to look at it from the macro perspective, right? Like, we can. We're as humans here and we're living our lives as humans, but like, to a pig or to a cow who we butcher and murder, like, all the time, like, we're no better than, like, any reptilian entity that wants to feed on our neck, feed on our fear, feeding our loosh, feeding our. Feed on our, like, negative feelings, right? Like, there's actually a very good, reasonable cause for me to be like, you know what? Like, they have just as much, like, right, and almost need for existence as we do. And, like, for us to, like, presume that they're the bad guys, even if, like, actually they're not running about killing us. Like, they might be feeding off energy. They might be, like, they might be creating that energy. They might be cultivating that amongst us. But, like, that's like, how can we. Until we take a mirror and look at ourselves as, like, beings that are doing that same thing? If you, like, if you, I don't know, like, eat a chicken or something like that, right? Like, there's something there which we're not addressing that, like, this whole entire reality contains so much stuff, right? And we're not innocent in that as humans and how we treat other beings and how we treat this planet and to moan about being treated in a negative light in a negative way by beings who are manipulating us. Is kind of hypocritical in some ways. So it's not like I look at it like I'm afraid of reptilians or I'm afraid of any beings who have negative intentions. Because actually, if you think about it, us being incarnated as humans, like, that's. That's stuff we need to look at and deal with as. As ourselves. So it's just ourselves. It's just another version of ourselves. So, yeah, like, that's my perspective on it. I. I don't. I don't. Whilst I don't wish more experiences with, like, somebody like Jerry, it was eye opening and it helped me. Yeah. Like, it helped me explore things. I'd never read a David Icke book before. Before I went on that thing. And I ended up, like, reading, like, five of his books and being very interested in this stuff, but. But also cautionary in the sense that, like, I. And you can keep all this in if it's interesting, by the way, I know you're still recording, so. But, like, I think I'd never read a David Icke book until that. And. And yeah, like, his books are fascinating, but there's also. I would also tread with caution there in the sense that, like, what you consume, the media you consume the things that. The type of content you consume, you'll just see more of that in your reality. Right? So if you want to read about lizards and you want to look like. Or reptilians, if you want to, like, bring more and more of that into your consciousness, there's a likelihood that you will bring more of that into your reality. So there's a balance to be found there. Like, if you want to bring more of that into your reality, then do you want to read more about it? Because quite honestly, I think I could recommend 100 other books that would be more enriching than that, for sure. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's not. It's not necessary, really. And it's better to focus on the, you know, the positives and the expansion of consciousness. Would you call it like a connection to spirit? [00:56:40] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Just thinking back to that, how it exposed. How that Jerry exposed himself to you. Obviously you never had an experience of actually seeing that before. Never, never, never believe that was even possible before that moment? [00:56:57] Speaker A: No, no. And I barely believed it was possible as I was doing the documentary. But I know what I saw, I know what I experienced, and I know that it was done in a way that was. I think it was like. I think. I don't know. I Don't like to. I don't like to project. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:57:14] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't like to tell you that I know what Jerry was thinking, or I know his intentions, because I don't. But, like, it felt like. It didn't feel like he was doing it to scare me. It almost felt like he was revealing it in a way that was like, I. I am more powerful than you. Right? Like, that was like. That was the vibe I got. But, like. Like, you can have a bit of this power if you like, if you're interested, right? Like, it's here for you and blah, blah, blah. But I'm not a power seeker, right. Like, it's not like, in my. In my realm of interest to be. To be falling for that, really. That's a trap Immediately, like, he kind of just assumed maybe too much about me in order to show me that. Because, yeah, it was very clear that. That. That was like, I've had rappy before and stuff like that, but that wasn't just your average rapping. Yeah, yeah. Like, that was like. That was some. Very, very clearly designed to. To. To. To help me see something or to show me something that was perhaps hidden. But I don't know. Like, I. I know what I shared on the documentary, and I know how I integrate the experience now, but I still couldn't tell you for sure that that's exactly what I saw. That I know his intentions. That what. What I saw was real. It also had to, like, a gram and a half or two grams of mushrooms, probably closer to a gram and a half. But, like, that in itself, like that itself, Regardless of how many mushroom trips I've had, which is many, many, many, and none of them have been anything like that. That regardless of how many psychedelics I've ever used, regardless of that, and regardless of having never had an experience even close to that, it still kind of will take the credibility out of my story for some people, and that's okay. Like, I can't do anything about that. All I can do is, like, this is what happened. This is my experience. If you think it's credible, great. If you don't, then I'm not looking to be like, believe me, this happened because. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's a matter of fact. [00:59:30] Speaker A: For you, it's a matter of experience. For me, it's a matter of my own perception of reality. For me, that I don't believe in fact or truth. I don't actually believe the concept of truth is, like, I don't believe that we have a Conception of truth. Right. Like, as soon as you put language to something, it's not true. It's perception. Right. So I don't, like, is it my. Is it my truth in this body, in this reality, time, space, existence, that I experience something that I choose to interpret as a reptilian encounter? Yeah, maybe, but it's like, it's not. Like, I'm not going to die on that hill. Like, if, if it's not that it's not, and if it isn't as, and it's not really up to me to make that decision. If people want to choose to believe me, then that's great. But if they don't, then that's also great. Like, I'm not interested in pushing my version of the truth because that's just my version of the truth. All I can do is share my experience and allow people to interpret that and come to some shared understanding of what truth is. Do I believe reptilians exist? Probably, yes. Do I believe I saw one? Probably, yeah. But do I believe other people need to believe me? No, absolutely not. Like, in fact, please don't believe me. Please, like, go out and figure out if this is actually reality or not for you, because that's a better. That'll give you a better indication of, or a better understanding of your interaction with this reality than I could ever give anybody. [01:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:09] Speaker A: Does that make sense? I just don't like to. [01:01:11] Speaker B: It does. Yeah. No, that makes great sense. It's like, have your experience because your experience is yours. [01:01:17] Speaker A: Exactly. It's the only one you're going to get, so. [01:01:20] Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you so much, Andy. [01:01:22] Speaker A: My pleasure. [01:01:24] Speaker B: I look forward to seeing what comes out next. And I'm going to go through all of your YouTube channel. It's going to be great. I know it is, because the way you present is so honest and clear. [01:01:35] Speaker A: Thanks very much. I've worked hard on that. So for some reason I've got that ability. But yeah, I appreciate that. It's very much like, I'm not Mr. YouTube. I'm not out here making, like, trying, trying to be, like, scandalous or whatever. But I, I, I, I feel like I'm just gonna be my. I can only be myself. I can't be somebody. I can't be. Like, I'm not interested in the algorithm. I'm not interested in being whatever. I'm just, Just like, if I can be myself and share these experiences, then great. [01:02:05] Speaker B: Okay. All right. Okay, thank you very much again. And yeah, I'll catch up with you again probably in about A year and we'll see where we're up to and what else has happened. That'd be really cool. So Andy, we've come to the end of the podcast and where would you like to point people to find out more about you? [01:02:24] Speaker A: If you Google Andy joins cults that's my name on all the stuff on the TikTok, on the Instagram, on the YouTube. So that'll be, that'll be where I it also on Spotify. I prefer to call what I'm doing like podumentaries. So it means that I can justify putting up on Spotify because like, I think there's, there's an element to what Spotify are doing, particularly in the podcast and like vlog, like expansion that's a bit more, that's a bit less overwhelming than YouTube. YouTube just has everything. Whereas, like, I'm kind of like structuring like a documentary, but like a podcast of a documentary. So. So yeah, like, I prefer people, if you have Spotify to go there because it's just like there's a lot less noise on Spotify YouTube. To me as a user and as a, I guess a creator, there's just a lot of like, just too much noise. It's just everything. And I don't, I don't believe that the algorithm will ever promote this type of content. So like, that would probably be like where I maybe will, but. But I'm not getting a lot of. I'm not getting a lot of like feeling of like consistency on YouTube. Some of my YouTube videos have like got 10,000 views and like, some of them have got like 23 and like the ones like ones that were released afterwards. So there's not like, I'm not seeing like a sensible trajectory on how my videos are promoted on YouTube. So who knows? But YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, I don't X or anything, but Andy joins college. [01:04:02] Speaker B: Okay, I'll put those links down in the show notes and I'll thank you so much for coming on and sharing so openly of your experiences and your understanding and perspective on the world and, and more power to you, Andy. You're exposing the really interesting things. [01:04:17] Speaker A: Very much so are you. I'm really, really keen to like go through some of the other super normalized podcasts. I think like, you're also doing amazing work and like, what you're, like what you're talking about is super interesting. And yeah, like the types of content you're bringing up is like really good and you do it in a fun way and like almost tongue in cheek as well. So there's like a really good, like, balance there between. Yeah. Like what people were talking about and how you're. You give space for that. So, yeah, like, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep listening to you. So. Really great to meet you as well. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah, good to meet you too. Thank you so much. I'll just say goodbye to listeners. I don't know what to say. That was totally amazing. Thank you, Andy, for coming on the show. I appreciate it fully. Now look, if you've enjoyed today's show, make sure you like and subscribe and also reach out to Andy and go into his YouTube. Andy joins cults. One word. They should find it. Or even just search. Andy joins Cults. Anywhere on the. On the Internet and you'll find Andy and watch. It's amazing. He's a really good presenter and the. The clarity in his understanding in his presentation and the honesty and groundedness comes through so clearly, as you even heard in this episode. It's just. It's is doing some great work here. So thank you so much for listening. Until next episode, it's bye for now. Sa.