Stephanie And Natalie Interview What Is The Life Of A Spirit Shaman Like?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: And she goes, I'm waiting for spirit. You know, my spirit guides to talk to me. And Natalie goes, why are you waiting for them? Tell them what you want to do. If they don't want you to do it, they'll tell you no. She's like, I can do that. Yeah. It's not up to them to decide. She goes, they'll tell you if it's the wrong path, but if it's the right path, they're going to stay out of your way and help, you know, guide that path or your angels will be on the path for you and whatnot. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Supernormalize, the podcast, where we challenge the conventional break boundaries and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me, CJ, as we explore less uncharted realms of existence and unravel the mysteries of life. Experience my treasured listeners, if you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at supernormalized. That's supernormalized with a Zroton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and unusual as what it really is. Completely normal. Today on supernormalized, I have two sisters, Stephanie and Natalie from immersivespirit.com. they grew up in connection with spirit and contacting spirits and in boosting their psychic abilities as a part of pretty much their early life together. And as a path of that, they decided to turn that into a businesses, what they call spiritual coaches. But in our conversation today, we went into their understanding of spirit and spirit contact and psychic mediumship and healing, and basically helping spirits move on when they get stuck in places. And it did make me sound, come to this conclusion that they actually sound a lot like spirit shamans. That's the word I coined in the show, and I thought that was cool. So I'm sure you'll enjoy this episode with this talk with both Stephanie and Natalie. I certainly did so on with the show. Welcome to super normalize, Natalie and Stephanie. Natalie and Stephanie, you've had quite an amazing life together in that you were pretty much touched by spirituality from the start. Do you want to explain that? It sounds like you had a wild childhood with spirits contacting you over and over. And welcome to the show. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's great to be here. I mean, I'll talk to mine first as my personal one, and then I think Natalie's got a plethora of them from even her kids childhood. Right. And things that happened. Yeah, it's always been fun, but for me, it was when I was five and my grandfather had. Our grandfather had passed, and we're at a young age, so we're. We're not going back to attend the funeral when they went out of state. So we were at babysitter's house and taking our afternoon nap, and I see the typical. What child would see as a ghost, right? Looks like a sheet floating around on the wall. Run downstairs to tell my babysitter about it, who promptly tells me, you're not getting out of your nap that way. You must go back to bed. So I go back up, and it lingers a while longer, and I'm hiding under the covers, but never felt threatened. I did the things that a typical. That you would do, right? You look out the window, what's windy, what's blowing around. I mean, all the things you see in cartoons, because I'm five and it dawns on us years later as we're really talking about it, that it was at that moment that everyone was saying goodbye to my grandfather and he was being buried. So for me, it's just kind of an acknowledgement of the spirit right away and the presence that they have in our lives and coming to say goodbye. Right. It's a watchful eye. It's a presence around to say, okay, still grandpa, still here, but not on this plane. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. What was your experience, Natalie? [00:04:45] Speaker C: So mine was actually much less dramatic. I don't have a point in time, but throughout my entire life, I've always lived in haunted houses. [00:04:55] Speaker B: So when you actually do pick them or. [00:05:00] Speaker C: This is since I was a baby. [00:05:02] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Wow. [00:05:03] Speaker C: Yeah. So Stephanie and I have lived in haunted houses, and our. Our parents were always thinking that we were a little bit crazy, but we were just for certain. And so I really grew up thinking that everybody had that experience. And it went well into my adulthood. And then my children started talking to spirits in the haunted houses. And so that was really kind of when Stephanie and I started having bigger conversations around spirituality and who we really are. And, you know, currently, we're both sitting in the corporate world, and we love our jobs. But then this kind of became a focus for us because we've had it our whole lives, but now it's like answering the calling. So it's really. I mean, I have a lot of point in time stories that are amazing for some folks because I'm coming to learn that it's not everybody's normal experience. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I completely understand that myself. I. I grew up with contact with spirits and seeing spirits and running to my parents and them saying, that's nothing. You know what I mean? And so you sort of, you sort of have this stuff happen over and over, and you have to sort of just pull back because you realize that it's not their world. And a lot of people don't even have that, that extra sensitivity to be able to pick up on that world. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:06:25] Speaker B: And it's sitting right parallel with the war we're experiencing right now, continuously. Yeah. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's fascinating because I think as, and it's something Natalie can attest to as well as even our families get older and the more they're listening and the more they're evolving with us and our business and those things, they're like, did you see that? Did you see that? They're becoming open almost by, by proxy. Right. That's just becoming something that's becoming natural to more as they're absorbing that information, which is kind of an interesting thing, too, to watch. I mean, I think a lot of our intuition and a lot of the things that we feel and see come from my mom, my, my dad, too, to some degree. But both of them, you would never, they would never, ever have been, you know, into anything. Woo woo, spiritual, paranormal, anything like that. But as we go more and more, my dad's a tai chi instructor. After retirement, my, my mother is now looking to my sister to go, hey, could you help me clear this space? Because I think there's something in there. So it's amazing. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome when you pick up on that sort of stuff and you get to that point where your, your friends and relatives actually feel open enough to be able to ask you to help because they know it. Right. Because, you know, even people that don't know can walk in a room go, there's something's not right here. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:50] Speaker B: You know, and it can be in a room. It can be a whole house. And, you know, there's people out there like yourselves that actually help with that. And I'm sure that in time, others will notice these things and avail themselves of your services and what you do. So you're inspired then to become, like, spiritual eclectics, planning Wicca, indigenous wisdom, Buddhism, and contemporary spiritual thought on your unique path. How did that all come together? Did you both do that together as well? [00:08:21] Speaker C: So we really kind of did. And before we move on, I just wanted to highlight, everybody is psychic. I think there's a few who decide to kind of take this path and help others who may not want to live on that path. But everybody's absolutely psychic. We're born with it, and, you know, it's a matter of whether you're going to be open to it or not. But back to our religious path. So when, you know, Steph and I were young, we were raised Christian. I was actually a camp counselor at christian camp in Nebraska. So we grew up on that path still having spiritual experiences. And then we moved in together after I graduated high school, and we went into Wicca. And because that seemed more earth based, you know, there was some intention there that we could connect to things, sense for us at that time. And then we've since, of course, moved apart and explored Buddhism and, you know, all of these different spiritualities. And I don't think. And Steph's gonna have to speak for herself here. I don't really attune to one thing, so I find a way that I feel that I'm connecting to my higher self and my spiritual source. And a lot of people call those different names, but they all kind of mean the same thing. It's just how I honor that is where I live in my spirituality. [00:09:42] Speaker B: What's your experience, steph? [00:09:44] Speaker A: Very much the same around us finding the Wicca and really going, oh, look at this, this is so cool. And being outside and the appreciation, that's, I think when for one part of us that the moon cycles really came into play with what we do, and because that really started to say, oh, all right, well, people are a little wonky during this full moon and during this time here. And what is retrograde. Ew. All right, that start, you know, so all those things started coming into play in terms of the astrology and the moon cycles and the things that go there, and we're still very much into that part and piece of it. But then it was into Buddhism for me and studying some of, I mean, the Dalai Lama and his teachings are just out of this world and the patience and the kindness and the things that go with that and that self introspection, shadow work really is what it is. And then it became indigenous, the indigenous lifestyle, the native Americans specifically here. And what, again, it's earth based, right? It's all father sky, mother Earth, and the moon cycles and the sun. And it's just an appreciation for everything and the different planes, right. That there's different respect at different levels for different spirit levels. And I think that is just fascinating. Again, spiritual eclectic, because I've just wound it all into a tight little ball and made it my own. And so God, spirit, great spirit source, whatever the person's comfort level is for me, you know, that's great. I have great spirit and spirit depending upon the day, that what I'm saying. But, yeah, it's ultimately all one. One creator is where I am. [00:11:28] Speaker C: It's unique, though, because we can speak to a lot of different folks on their level because we're just talking about spirit. We're, you know. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I. I used to go to a spiritual church sometimes in, um, in Brisbane, in. In the city, and talking with the psychics there because they were really good. And. And sometimes I'd sit with them and talk about spirit, and they'd say, you should become a pastor. I'm like, no, no, I'm just talking about spirit because I like talking about spirit. You don't need to be a pastor to do that. [00:12:01] Speaker A: Exactly. Right, right. I don't want to teach that part of it, but I definitely want to emphasize how. Well, it's about how we help people. Right. And that's what you're doing. For example, CJ, with your. With your podcast and acknowledging all of that, it's the same thing. It's, how do we help somebody else just find their own space. [00:12:19] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. I mean, the world as an experience can be quite difficult for some people, and for others, it's actually quite smooth. But if we can actually make it smooth for everyone and an easy sort of path, you know, we all step in potholes and drip over and, like, help each other up, why not? Right? [00:12:37] Speaker A: Exactly. Absolutely. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah. How do you use your psychic abilities and mediumship skills and healing expertise to guide individuals towards developing self awareness and a spiritual path? [00:12:51] Speaker A: I'll let nat go first. [00:12:56] Speaker C: So, in helping others. So we do readings outright. Of course, if somebody comes to us with a burning question or a desire or something that they want to manifest, it's more about helping them identify their own psychic intuition, because if they listen to themselves, they really do know what their next best path is. We help them try to get connected with spirit, maybe listening to your spirit guides, and there's lots of different things that you can do that lead you on that path. I know a big traditional one is going to be meditation, sitting with yourself, stopping and listening. But other things are clearing your path, clearing your house, clearing your mind, having conversations with like minded people that just continues to open and allow you to be who you want to be. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:47] Speaker A: I would add to it, like, with the mediumship part of that, during the readings, a lot of times, I mean, something that her and I do and share. We both have very different approaches to how we do our readings. We'll talk about them and say, well, oh, that's fascinating. Once in a blue moon, read for each other just to say, oh, I like your approach. I like how you start that. That's pretty cool. And I'm in a good space. But there's other times that you're like, oh, that's different. Let me go this way. But we both agree on, you know, we're calling in your spirit guides, your angels, whatever that means to each individual person. Right. For what we're, what we're acknowledging is our spirit guides. And having that conversation with your guides, your archangels, it could be, you know, the. The masters, of course, Buddha. The Buddha and Jesus Christ. And who. Who wants to be a part of this conversation? And your ancestors. And so that's where the mediumship comes into play, right? Because then all of a sudden, you're like, did you have an Uncle Harry that loved weird flavored croissants? And they're going, okay. And for me, it's always something very. It's very. It's very much a feeling, a physical presence. And then they normally involve food, because during my readings, I'll kind of say, okay, imagine that we're sitting at a coffee table. We're taking a. We're taking a break. It's just me and you. We're chilling. So ancestors are thinking, oh, having coffee. So I always get some sort of baked good in there. I've had the strangest thing, CJ, I'll tell you. But for my sister, she has more connection on the mediumship side. I think she will see a lot more of the physical aspects. She gets a lot more detail on those things. And so depending upon what people want to hear, sometimes, if it's a reading and they truly are just saying, hey, either I want tarot, I want runes, or just an intuitive reading. Okay, great. We go down that path. If they're saying, I really want to talk to an ancestor, I might guide them her way first and just see how that goes. Past lives, we'll both play with and say, yeah, we can do some past life regression, but I'll tell you what, neither one of us sees the past life, same past life either time. Either. It's just different. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a very unique experience. We meet for the same people a lot because we do, you know, we're together in immersive spirit. So people see both of our names, and they're like, oh, and I always tell people that if you read with Stephanie, she's going to find something completely different than I did. And different people are going to come in to have that experience, because it's really about who you're attracting at that time and what questions you're trying to answer. But the dead can be. There's seriously some. Some funny folks. And Steph and I are develop. We develop every day. Everybody does. Like, all of our senses are developing every day for everybody. And I had one that I wasn't. I was interpreting. And as a psychic, that's not what you are. You're just the person who's supposed to say what you see, feel here. That ran right up in my face and said, drop an anvil. Okay. So I dropped the anvil, which stopped me in my tracks, because I've never had anybody come into my personal space like that. And as soon as I said it, the person I was reading for was like, you are kidding me. So we explained this whole story, and he's like, now I know who you're talking to. But, yeah. So it's just a different experience. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And I had one physical one time where doing a reading for somebody that I go, was your grandmother one of those that just pinched your cheek really hard? All the time? I go, because she's pinching my cheek and she's like, and I had never had an actual physical, you know, pinching of my cheek there. She was just grabbing on. And I thought, okay, yeah. [00:17:31] Speaker C: She's expecting the unexpected all the time. [00:17:33] Speaker A: It is. [00:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. For sure. For sure. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Just don't know. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. They just come in and they do what they need to do and to get a point across. And that's a good thing? [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. And if you're trying to make something of it, Natalie's point is spot on. It is not our job to interpret it, to figure out the story, to do any of that. It's to say, this isn't for me. This is for you. Just say it. Because. And that's been a learning curve, right. It's something that is because we always want to make. Everybody wants to make something into a story. Even with paranormal investigations, we want to make something into a story. You watch them on tv and they're like, oh, it's probably this, this and this. It's like, how do you know? You don't know that. [00:18:13] Speaker C: You're. [00:18:14] Speaker A: You're drawing conclusions about something and speaking for somebody that has been dead for 200 years, and you assume that's them. That could be somebody else. You don't know. So it's just, you know. Okay. I'm waiting for you to tell me. You tell me what I'm supposed to know. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got to be the clear channel on it, on that event. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Let it. Let it be what it is. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:38] Speaker B: In what ways do your Reiche healing sessions promote energetic balance and overall well being for your clients? I mean, do you both work with Reichi at the same time? [00:18:50] Speaker A: I'm the Reiki master. [00:18:51] Speaker B: You're the Reiki master? Okay. [00:18:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker A: So I guess so. For me, it's. So it sometimes has come into a session. Sometimes it's just been a Reiki session, right. Where it's just truly about the Reiki, but there have been times where somebody will just say something, and I'm looking, and the more that they talk to me, my intuition, right. That it's pay attention. It's just paying attention. And I'm like, can we just take a second? Do you mind if we do this? And we'll take five minutes, ten minutes to just clear their space, or I'll acknowledge and just kind of play through the channels and the chakras and say, okay, here's where. Here's where we're blocked, and we'll spend a little minute, you know, spend some time of just doing some healing. And I'll, I'm telling them, please keep your eyes closed. And then I'll ask, you know, what did you feel? And they'll tell me to acknowledge after to make sure that, you know, they are feeling that moment and it's. It's coming through. But there are times during intuitive sessions where it's sure handy to have to help somebody get out of, because what they think of as a block, one way you find out, is just throat chakra, and they're not communicating, they're not saying it. And so by helping and focusing there for a moment, sometimes that helps or that they're not grounding or whatever that might be. Did that answer? Sorry. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it did. So, Natalie, do you work with healing modalities that are similar to the Reiki, or do you do other things? [00:20:14] Speaker C: I don't, actually. Stephanie is going to start working with me for Reiki healing, but I was focusing on astrology and finding people's paths on their astrological natal charts and their transits and answering questions that way. So we kind of separated from each other, and I think that's because Stephanie and I realized that as sisters, we've been on the same path for so long. We try to keep those little pieces a little bit different. So while we'll both learn both of those aspects, we're kind of separate at this point. [00:20:48] Speaker B: Okay. So they both have different strengths in what you do. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:52] Speaker C: Right. [00:20:52] Speaker A: So that we're not. Yeah, because it's. We can be a little bit good at a lot of things, or we can be really good at a few things. And, I mean, we'll continue to learn, of course, and evolve. I mean, we're only in our fifties. We got a long way to go. So it's one of those that it's like Nat said, as a Reiki master teacher, I can teach her Reiki, and that's the benefit of that. So I will be able to do that with her. And all the astrology courses and content that she has learned over the years, she continues to give me that knowledge. [00:21:24] Speaker B: Nice. Natalie, what type of astrology do you practice? [00:21:29] Speaker C: So really what I do is I get natal chart information and then I find the people's heart of their chart. Like, where are your talents? Where are your challenges? What are things that you might have to do some additional shadow work in? Because that seems to be a tough house or a tough transit for you or, you know, find where things are going to be complicated for folks. And oftentimes, you know, people will come with a question, and in those questions, it's like you really got to interpret their chart. But after I do that interpretation, find those hearts, find those challenges, I step back and try to do an intuit, intuitive reading on it. So I'm able to kind of fill gaps and holes and try to find spaces that really connect with them because we can all go print our charts from astro.com or cafe astrology or, you know, all of those different websites, you can find a ton of information out there. So to be unique, it's an intuitive interpretation on top of your chart. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Nice. Do you do, like, transits for yourself and Stephanie so you can watch out. [00:22:33] Speaker C: For things we do if we know that there is a specific date that's coming up for both of us. And I don't know if she's doing her transits yet, but I oftentimes will look at what that day looks like for me. So I know we're having a big thing coming up in November, and so I'm starting to watch the transits for that and the things like where's our moon going to be and how am I going to handle this specific? Because there's things I already know that are going to happen. And, yeah, so it's it's really unique to be able to do that for yourself. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. It's good to have a roadmap, isn't it? [00:23:07] Speaker C: Fantastic? [00:23:09] Speaker A: That transit piece is a, is a lovely little tool, I'll tell you what. [00:23:12] Speaker C: Game changer. [00:23:13] Speaker A: That's. Yeah. We look at it and go, okay, new moon, full moon, where's our transits? What's this look like as we're kind of doing that lunar intention setting and some of those things, and that's been really Jupiter, Saturn. [00:23:25] Speaker C: What's going. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:23:26] Speaker C: What energy are we going to have to deal with? [00:23:28] Speaker A: No wonder I'm seeing everything in double and it's all twisted. Right? Yeah, whatever. Yeah. [00:23:34] Speaker B: I do that for my wife sometimes. I've got an app on my, my iPad that I use, and it's really good. She says, what am I going through? I feel like this, this and this, and I go and look and I go, oh, it's because of this, this and this. She goes, oh, it's not you. It's just the planets having a fight. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Right, exactly. Exactly. And that's. Yes. That's the part I've been learning. So Natalie's ahead of me on that, but I use, it's. We have a great software that we use to start, and then from there, I cheat because, you know, I'm looking at the software and that type of thing, whereas Natalie will get very down deep into all the intuition and all the different pieces and the moving parts of it, and I'm sitting here going, okay, I'm not there yet, but I did read the definition, and it'll all. [00:24:16] Speaker C: Come just like me, understanding symbols for, like, what is that? Lots to learn on full pins. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Oh, look, I've been looking at astrology for, like, over ten years myself, and I still get lost on the glyphs. I actually went, and just every now and then I start writing them out just so I get them in my head because it's like, doesn't stick for some reason. I don't know why. [00:24:37] Speaker C: I have books, literally books and books and books of my writing as I'm interpreting stuff, and I could just go on forever. There's just so many things. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. So you know how to pull out a lot out of somebody's chart and. [00:24:52] Speaker C: Their transits almost sometimes to the point where I can't deliver. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Oh. [00:24:57] Speaker C: Because I have so much content and it's like, what am I going to give them? That's going to be valuable. That's not going to miss the valuable pieces, of course. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Where it becomes too much. It's an overload. Yeah, yeah. [00:25:08] Speaker B: For sure. For sure. They don't absorb then. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to ask this one here. Okay. What remarkable experience has Natalie and Stephanie encountered in their journey as a psychic sister's best friends and spiritual coaches at immersive spirits? So have you shared in experiences together of contact with spirits? [00:25:32] Speaker C: We do do paranormal investigations together. She does live in Montana, and I live in Colorado. But we're oftentimes traveling to each other's homes and then going to client sites or investigating hotels or other things that people may know about. We've had a lot of experiences of those type of paranormal. But then when we see an actual, like, the flashlight turns on the things you see on paranormal tv, and we both try to tap in, and she'll tell me something different than what I'm experiencing at that exact same moment, but it's an experience together, and ultimately, we typically can tie those together. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That would be because you both have different ways of picking up on the information that's coming through. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:21] Speaker C: And we do do remote clearings together as well. So we've had quite a few clients that have needed some assistance. And so we'll both tap in at different times to the property or to the home or to the hotel or wherever we're trying to tap into. We'll do that individually, and then we'll come together and honor that spirit at the same time and walk through what we need to do to help that client. [00:26:47] Speaker B: So how do you both approach in investigating hauntings and then assisting spirits in crossing over with compassion and empowerment? I mean, obviously, you're both super conscious when it comes to spirits and their needs as well, because a lot of times they're just confused, from my understanding. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I would. Yes. And I think it's one of those, again, where, like, Natalie was talking about when we tap in. So the last example for, we were at a hotel in Colorado, and we're sitting in this room, and it's like you kind of get this feeling around it, and we acknowledge that and do you want to go? And there's no acknowledgement one way or another. And so that's one of those, okay, we bless and release that because they're not ready, whatever that is. But there have been other times where it's just like, okay, we're here, and this is your opportunity, and do you want to cross? And we've each got different methods. Ultimately, it's a door and it's a light, and it's and it's guiding them to that light. But you have to have the acknowledgement from the spirit first. Right. I mean, you can't do anything against any buddy or anythings will, really. Yes, we can clear spaces. Yes, you can sage. Yes, you can put up your crystals and you can protect yourself. That's a little bit different. But when it comes to actually crossing over, you need the permission of whatever it is you're crossing. And from the spirit perspective, if they're not ready to go, if they're ready to stay in a human zoo, right. And be part of that experience where people pay money to come and be freaked out, then, okay, enjoy. But most are feeling trapped and like they're being used. And so it's. It's one of those where we can sit and quietly reflect on that and one will create the door. We, you know, we're both looking at something and we both will imagine it, but it's one person. If we're together when we're doing it, it might be Natalie, just because of her mediumship skills. Again, where she's having that conversation and she's leading them to that door and I'm sitting and holding energy with her and seeing it with her. So that we're helping them cross over. [00:29:00] Speaker C: We will always try to get them to agree to cross because we think everybody should be where they're supposed to be. And spirits on this plane who haven't crossed, they just need to go home, like one of our mentors says. So, you know, it's really having that conversation. And so we do do paranormal investigations, too. So let me back up for a second. When we walk into a paranormal investigation. Yeah, evidence is great. Ultimately, that's not what we're there for. We do that for, like, our YouTube channels that we're going to be creating and, you know, just to have some content so people can see what we see. But at the end of that paranormal investigation, it's not about keeping them there. It's not about leaving them there for someone else to come in and experience that. It's ultimately getting everybody home safely, whether that's talking them into going. Because, you know, there's a lot of times we've had hauntings where, well, not a lot of times. A couple of times we've had some significantly angry people who were haunting on purpose. And you've got a. It's almost like a therapy session for them. You got to walk them in and get them to agree that being on the other side would be best. [00:30:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes spirits don't get it when it's time to go back to source and reset. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:18] Speaker C: They just want to be angry and lash out. You got to talk them out of that and, you know, have compassion for where they're at. Right. [00:30:26] Speaker A: And it's for everyone. I mean, she mentioned one of the mentors, amazing mentor we work with. And whether it was a psychopath serial killer in this life or whether it was somebody's sweet, genteel grandmother, everyone deserves to just move on, to be in whatever plane and whatever next. Next existence people believe in. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Going back to source. Yeah. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Need to go back and figure out, okay, if you are being reborn or you are coming back into another life, what is it? What lessons do you need to learn in between? Right. What kind of things do you have to go deal with so that you can cross? What steps do you have to go through to get there? [00:31:06] Speaker C: And we'll sit with them during those review steps, too. Happily. You know, I can only go to a certain point where that door is not for me to cross, but I will sit with you while you go through your process of what it looked like on this side and help you be. Okay. [00:31:23] Speaker B: Sounds like you're doing a bit of shamanic soul retrieval for spirits. [00:31:28] Speaker C: A little bit. [00:31:29] Speaker A: A little bit, yeah. [00:31:31] Speaker B: To help someone integrate and I thought. [00:31:33] Speaker A: About it in that respective. But. Yes. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:37] Speaker C: I'm going to have to dig into that because that sounds amazing. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Spirit shamans. [00:31:45] Speaker C: You think about it from. [00:31:46] Speaker A: That native american perspective and that shamanic. Yes. Because it is a lot more dealing with. With the dead and the. Yes, you're absolutely right. [00:31:55] Speaker C: We work for the dead. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Yeah. That's a great quote. [00:32:00] Speaker A: When we're on those, let's clarify. We're not really. [00:32:04] Speaker C: At most of the time, though. I'm just kidding. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Doing a birth chart for the dead is, you know, kind of a moot point to tell them where their transits are, but. [00:32:12] Speaker C: Yeah, well, you know, they want to give me their birth information. That'd be helpful, actually. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:20] Speaker C: I'm going to start asking for that. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Do you ever use divination before you go into a session with the, like, releasing spirits and things? Do you ever do that? We'd have to go to this house and do some work and throw some cars and know what's going to happen and look at the transits and go, is this going to be good or. You do a lot. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:32:41] Speaker A: It depends. Again, it's a. It's a gut feeling. [00:32:43] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:43] Speaker A: It's all about your intuition. Sometimes you're feel called to card. Sometimes you feel called to crystal, sometimes you're just like, oh, I just need to sit and, you know, meditate on this for whatever. But yes, I think there's some sort of tool that we use for majority of what we do. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:33:00] Speaker C: Almost everything. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Well, it comes all the way back to immersive spirits. You're doing all of the things to make all of the things happen. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Excellent. Excellent. So how do you work with spirits? Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. How do you both work with spirit to share the healing energy of, say, reichi and, say, your astrology to bring that to their clients? I mean, you're integrating people into a better understanding of themselves in the world. How do you do that? I mean, you said intuition is the key. Is that, is that pretty much the main tool that you're using there? [00:33:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And go ahead. It looks like you're going to say. [00:33:49] Speaker C: Well, no, I think intuition for the people who reach out to us, that's what they are expecting from us. So they really want the insight there. If during astrology I'm doing intuitive and I start getting other things, like I had a young lady who had passed, and I was reading for her mom at the time, and she was telling me about something specific that was coming up for her mom, and she was telling me how she was going to be there and how she would be holding her hand. So a lot of this is, of course, this woman trusting me that, first of all, I'm right about this thing coming up for her in astrology. And then on top of it, her daughter's telling me that this is how she's going to meet. She's going to meet her in that moment. And so it took about a year and a half for that process to go through. However, it did happen, and it happened as I explained it. And she was actually very comforted as she went through that moment because she knew how her daughter was showing up for her at that time and almost expected it because of, you know, how it had developed for her. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Nice. Nice. Okay, so what challenges have you both found on your spiritual journey and in your personal development? I mean, you've probably come up against some friction with people around you and even probably family members. What challenges have you have you faced and got through together? [00:35:22] Speaker C: Steph, go ahead. If you wanted to. Go ahead. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Oh, go ahead. [00:35:24] Speaker C: Okay. So I've actually personally lost friends because when I first started doing this, so I had a key moment in which I've always known that I've had just haunted things around me and everybody had that experience. So I thought that was all normal. We talked about that. So I was doing a paranormal investigation, and as I was catching something on the SLS, I looked up and I could actually see them. And that's when I was like, huh? And then she looked at me and in my mind she said, you can see me. And I thought, huh. And that's when it snapped for me that maybe there's something more to what I'm open to. So anyway, that's kind of what kicked us off. And it's like, we're going to do this. We're going to open up. I can actually see spirit. I can hear them. They're talking to me. So that's what started the development. Challenges have been broad. Losing my friends have been the worst because telling them about this, they think it's very much a parlor trick. So like, oh, yeah, tap in. Show me. Tell me how this relationship's going to work out. But then you tell them something real that they didn't want to share with you. And then there's that. That's not what I, you know, I didn't want you to know about that. Well, I'm psychic. It's not a parlor trick. And I'm not trying to pull something out that I'm not supposed to know. It's just what's coming to me. So there's been those challenges as well as having days where I have a very human experience and I can't tap in and my spirit guides don't feel like they're around me. And then I feel like maybe this isn't for me. So then you have that, your self doubt, and that has been, that's been a challenge that I faced a lot. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Yep, I would agree with that. I think the other part of it is just because of our backgrounds in corporate America and working where we do, there is a lot of, and I think that's why immersive spirit has developed the way it has over the last year. The reason that we finally decided in our fifties, why aren't we pursuing this as a business? Why aren't we just doing what we want to do? Because we're past that caring anymore. One of the greatest gifts that I wish everyone had in their twenties instead of waiting until we're in our forties and fifties and sixties is wisdom. And it's that knowledge that, yeah, other people's opinions of me are none of my business. Don't care. And you do care a little. I mean, you're a little hurt with the friend experience or when people go, oh, you're one of those. And you're like, oh, okay, so you have a label for them. Well, good for you. And so it becomes kind of that feeling, all right, bless and release. I'll find another friend, or I'll find another person that is interested. And what's been really fascinating, CJ, is the amount of people that have shocked the hell out of me by being believers just shocked me. People that have been friends for mine for decades that I thought, oh, this is going to be a slippery slope. Just sitting here, finally talking about the website and really putting it all out there, and they're like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. We've been looking for people that do this and da da da da da. Are you kidding? Wow, roll me over. You know? So who knew? Maybe we should have known that we were tapping into the wrong things. [00:38:46] Speaker B: I think our culture is, it's like our mind is colonialized with the idea that all these sort of things should be suppressed, and they're weird and strange things that happen, that are supernatural may happen to their lives and disrupt everything and everything like that. So people just suppress it. And even when they have experiences, they suppress it and they don't tell anyone and they don't feel like they can tell anyone, which is part of the reason why I do this podcast, so I can. I can tell everyone, too, so. [00:39:18] Speaker A: Right. Awesome. It's so wonderful that you do that. And it's. It is. It's programming. It's all programming, right. And there's a wonderful, like in the law of attraction. Not the law of attraction, the four. Yeah, I think it's the four laws. I have to look at my book. I'll have to tell you, I can't remember the. [00:39:36] Speaker C: Oh, by any disposal. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Yeah, no, not disposable. It's another one, the four. I'll find it anyway. But one of the things I found the most fascinating was around programming as children and how we're trained. Very much like we train our dogs, and so it's the same and our, and it's not anything on our parents, they were trained, and then they were trained, and then they were trained, and it's like, oh, no, that's wrong. Imaginary friends don't exist, and those dreams are bad and spirits aren't real. And you didn't see a ghost. And yes you did. Yes you did. And so as we're slowly opening, you know, it's really cool to watch Natalie with her boys, for example, because when they do say something, she's like, sweet. Tell me about it. Very different, right? So they're embracing it and keeping it. And, you know, the oldest one is like, not right now. The youngest one, who's. He's like, oh, yeah, hey, mom, I'm trying to cross this guy. He's not going to the door. I want to help. And, okay, good. Good job. [00:40:41] Speaker C: Or they bother him during class. He's like, I'm sending this one to you, mom. I've got a test. Like, really? Okay. And they're texting me this from school. I was like, man, I'm at work, too. [00:40:55] Speaker A: But it's amazing because it's the difference in acknowledging it and keeping it exactly. So that we don't gain that cynicism and the whole skepticism, cynicism, everything that comes with it, with that programming from youth. So we're growing out of that again. We grew out of it 30 years ago. We're just embracing the heck out of it now. So. [00:41:19] Speaker B: How has all of this experience changed your faith? I mean, you grew up, as you said, in spirituality, which was based around Christianity. Do you still have, say, God and Jesus is one of your mentors? [00:41:33] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I've raised my boys in a christian faith because I think society where we sit, that's where we're comfortable, but questions are allowed, and I question things when we get in the car after we don't go to every Sunday service, we do experience some services together because, you know, you worship in your community. We'll sit in the car on the way home, and I'll be like, well, I'm not really sure all about this story. And we ask different questions, and we're like, well, maybe there was other spiritual folks along for that ride, and those stories probably existed in time, but they also existed in different dimensions. And so, you know, it's a very broad conversation, because what I want them to believe is that everything is possible. No matter whom you call your source, everything is possible. [00:42:25] Speaker A: And I'm not as I absolutely still believe. I believe Jesus walked the earth, and I. And I believe, you know, he was resurrected. And I do believe all those things, because why not? Why not? Right? And the same with, because everything is possible. Just to Natalie's point, the thing that I always have to question is everything is written by man, right? Somebody has taken it, transcribed it, and turned that into, again, their perspective on a situation. So. And I've read not. I can't say I've read the whole bible, but I've read most, and I have my copies of my bible here that have been handed down over the generations, and I. And huge respect. But I also have to stand back and remind myself that everything was written down by somebody else. I have to trust what I'm hearing in my heart and in my faith with God and with where that sits with me personally, because just because it was written in a book doesn't make everything 100% accurate. It was ultimately interpreted by somebody else. [00:43:29] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, his PR team. [00:43:32] Speaker A: Yeah, his PR team. That's exactly right. And a good pr team. Very good. Yeah. [00:43:41] Speaker B: But actually, you know, you're both saying that you still have the faith is an important thing to me because I personally was raised in a Christianity based system, but I asked too many questions at church, and so I was always in sort of in trouble. We weren't allowed to ask questions, and eventually we decided not to go to church because it wasn't working. [00:44:03] Speaker A: You know, you weren't converting. [00:44:06] Speaker B: I was upsetting too many people because I was asking questions, but I still kept that christian faith in me. And I know that the christian technology is powerful. It's got a lot of history, and so there's prayers there that'll actually help with unruly spirits and moving them on and protecting the home and helping people to get into a healing channel if they're stuck. So I see all that is important, and it should not be thrown away because, you know, there's goodness in everything. [00:44:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. And that's. I think that's the point. The thing, one of the greatest benefits of being able to study the different things that we have over the decades is there is goodness in everything when you're willing to look for it and not find just the bad. And because of the phenomenon, the popularity, the adoption of Christianity, and just because of the strong, the. Because it's faith. It's all faith. It's having faith in that higher power, in something bigger than you, in something that maybe doesn't control your puppet strings, but. But has absolute dominion. And how do you want to say dominion? [00:45:26] Speaker C: It gives you power. [00:45:28] Speaker A: It gives you power. It's the influence of your life, and it's the positive star. Right. It's something you look up to. And I think that's important for everybody to have. I really do. Yeah. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Being so open and working with spirits often. Have you ever encountered non human intelligences? [00:45:52] Speaker C: I think so. So. And I say I think so because typically, when I've had a situation, I've been able to feel them or I've been able to tap into them or have some kind of connection with them. And I've had one instance, and it was in my own home. And I think it was something that was self caused from a haunting. I didn't. I didn't fully disconnect from, I didn't fully clear from, and I couldn't feel their energy, but they were enormous in shadow. And I just. It was. It was kind of a miserable experience. And ultimately I ended up contacting because, you know, in my own home, I have lots of shadows. We have things that come and talk to my kids. We have, you know, this one, I couldn't get to leave. I couldn't beg to leave. I couldn't push to leave. I couldn't empathily, empathetically wrapped them in my nice, warm orange light and push them out the door. And then I called my sister because I was like, there's something seriously wrong with this one. I can't do anything. It's not communicating, and it's getting angry. So we sat together, and we ended up getting it out of the house. But it was a scary situation, and I really feel that they were probably inhuman. And I'm still not sure to this day why they were here. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Right, right. So with that experience, did you think that was, like, a hitchhiker that came from an external source or. [00:47:18] Speaker C: I do, and I think it was actually, I had let some tag alongs come with me while I was doing an investigation. [00:47:26] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:47:27] Speaker C: You need to really understand how your tagalongs feel about things before you can take them with you. So it was a learning lesson for sure, because I think they brought that thing I want to say back to my home because they didn't know how to close doors, even though we talked about it, where, you know, do the sage, do the palo Santo, I think we had with us, you know, and really clear your mind and tell it you're not, no one's going to follow us, and you're not to be here. You know, all of the things that you do when you walk away from a place like that and you can't cross things over. And I'm not sure that that really sunk in for them. So I think that's probably how they hitchhiked back to my house. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes it's, um. It's good to actually drive a different route home just to confuse them too. Um, but otherwise they figure it out, so. [00:48:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Right. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah. But, um. Yeah, no, that would have been rough. And, yeah, I've had. I've had contact with spirits again. Can be a bit difficult as well. [00:48:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:35] Speaker C: The rough part was. Was saying I needed my sister's help, I think was the first part of it. [00:48:40] Speaker A: It was really interesting because it was something we got to do together and go, okay, so this is a different kind of attachment. What are we dealing with here? And move it on. So that was. It was good. I was glad she reached out. And honestly, again, tools. This was one of the weirdest times. I don't know why, but I was drawn to, I have a selenite crystal or crystal sphere. Selenite sphere. And I said, I don't know why. I just grabbed it and held that while we were doing it. Sometimes you're just. It's an intuition thing. I was drawn to it and it worked. [00:49:09] Speaker C: So something that empowers you. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [00:49:13] Speaker B: My wife does shematic healing, and she's got a selenite sword, so I can understand why that. [00:49:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, awesome being selenite. [00:49:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. It's kind of every now I don't have a sword. I would love a sword, but I've got the lights and little hearts in my. In different bags and wands and. Yeah, we even have a wand in the back of our motorcycle. One of our. The bag in the motorcycle, just in case. [00:49:36] Speaker B: Wand. [00:49:37] Speaker A: It's the protection thing. Right. Everything away, including anybody that's going to cause a wreck, please. Thanks. [00:49:46] Speaker B: It's good to talk to people that know. It's good. [00:49:50] Speaker A: I love it. [00:49:51] Speaker B: So in what ways do you both teach and mentor others to develop their own psychic abilities and spiritual connections with the universe? [00:50:03] Speaker A: Well, we offer coaching, and it's fun. Normally, we do different coaching sessions with people, so you can take them separately from us. But there was one who we had both met with for readings. This was one of those circumstances, and so we both coached her. And much to our chagrin, it worked really well. So we didn't make a whole lot off of it, which doesn't help business, but it was, the goal is to help somebody, and we helped her. That was fantastic. And in that, for her, everybody's different. Right? Because they're all coming to you for different things. I mean, we're not a life coach, per se. We're just helping you on your path, figure out what that is and what your block is for your particular journey. We're not going to try and define your journey. We're not here to tell you this is the only way to go, because that's not true. Everybody has a different path. In her instance, she just didn't know what she didn't know. And so she's like, wait a minute, I, you know, one of Natalie's teachings, remindings during this time was she's, you know, she's sitting here, she goes, I just don't know. Should I be focused on tarot? Should I be focused on doing reading? Should I be focused on doing healing energy? Should I? And now, like. And she goes, I'm waiting for spirit, you know, my spirit guides to talk to me. And Natalie goes, why are you waiting for them? Tell them what you want to do. If they don't want you to do it, they'll tell you no. She's like, I can do that. Yeah. It's not up to them to decide. She goes, they'll tell you if it's the wrong path, but if it's the right path, they're going to stay out of your way and help, you know, guide that path or your angels will be on the path for you and whatnot. Man, we just gave her just a small handful of homework, probably, what, three or four tasks. Natalie, and met with her again five days later. It was unbelievable how changed she was. She was just wound like an eight day clock. It was crazy. It was so fun to listen to. Her energy was just off the chart. She had a path. She had things figured out, and we're watching and talking to her in these different communities now. Her growth is just. And that's nothing to do with us. We gave her a little homework and a little guidance and she figured it out. [00:52:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Normally mentorship lasts a little longer than that. [00:52:21] Speaker A: You just do that one I like to brag about because I'm like, this is our best success and worst success story for our business. But it was. [00:52:33] Speaker B: That's the main thing, right? [00:52:35] Speaker A: Exactly. It's, the whole goal is if we're doing this for the money, we're doing it wrong. I mean, yes, of course we'd love to do this and replace corporate life completely, but we're doing this to help others and because we love it and it's, and it's rewarding. Yeah. [00:52:53] Speaker C: Everybody should be able. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:52:57] Speaker B: So I was going to ask you then, without saying the names of your company, what sort of jobs do you do in corporate. [00:53:06] Speaker A: Human resource and financial software for global organizations? [00:53:11] Speaker B: That's wild. [00:53:11] Speaker C: I'll go ahead and just say the name now. I'm just kidding. [00:53:15] Speaker A: There's a whole bunch that do that. [00:53:19] Speaker B: So I think it's good to say these things because people go, you work in that and you do this. [00:53:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:24] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Because that's then people get that connection to go, oh, so it's okay to connect to all these things? [00:53:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:53:32] Speaker C: And I think that's where we're uniquely suited, because people from the corporate world who maybe do what we do or, you know, the C suite or whatever, and they. They feel this way, but they don't feel okay about it. Well, there's people who are on this path that can. That can help you find that connection without causing any damage to. To your corporate position. [00:53:57] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah. And it's fun because you just have to tune out. Right. You got to walk from one desk to another, so to speak, because it's really just a shift in. I mean, I manage a team of ten people, and so going from that leadership hat to how can I help somebody on a different level, it's still help. Help is help. Help and guidance and coaching. [00:54:25] Speaker B: Do you ever get called to do the spirit work at work? Um, like, does, like, a spirit come and say, I need you to tell. [00:54:38] Speaker A: This person that, oh, well, no, I have not yet. [00:54:44] Speaker C: But IGCP specifically. GCP is a key word from our mentor ground. Clear. Protect. I specifically do that during the day so that I am unapproachable. So I set boundaries. And I think spirit under. They actually have been really respectful of the boundaries I've had over the last few years. I'm not saying that that's always going to be the case. Like, if an inhuman came, I doubt they're going to respect. I don't know. I don't know how that's all going to come together. But during work, I can't. I have a door that I've created that I can cross people over. So if people come and sit in the room while I'm working and I can see them, I'll let them know about the door in my mind. But I've never had anybody say, hey, you need to tell Joe in India that his mom loves it. That hasn't happened. [00:55:35] Speaker A: Although it's fascinating. I might just not GCP on that level or grandpa. [00:55:40] Speaker C: I'm not opening that up. I can't listen to that many conversations. [00:55:44] Speaker A: It could be interesting. I need to just. But I need to plan it for my slow meeting days. Right. And kind of figure that out. [00:55:49] Speaker C: But I have. [00:55:51] Speaker A: It's. What's been really fascinating is this has happened, is my. My conversations have changed with some of my team. And so now, like, I just did a birth chart for one of my team the other day. She's like, you can. I said, well, I have this again, back to the software part of it. I can't do the whole, I'm not going to try and do the whole intuitive part of reading the chart, but I will happily just run your chart for you. [00:56:17] Speaker C: Sure. [00:56:17] Speaker A: And it's got a little more detail than what you're going to get on this website because of the software. But, yeah. And then I found out another one on my team reads your tarot cards every morning. So now we'll just occasionally. And I go. She goes, and, yeah, so we're talking. She goes, I started it like, six months ago because I felt blocked. And my daughter mentioned it to me. I go, really? And how we got on the conversation, I could not tell you. My sister asked me after she goes, how on earth did you get it to that from one of your one on one conversations? And I'm like, I don't remember, but that was fascinating. And spirit works where spirit wants to work, right? Spirit's gonna pop in and say, guess what? This person needs this, or this person does this, too. And they didn't know they could share it with you. So it's put us on a different plane, a different relationship, because now, you know, if we're both having really weird days, I'll be like, what card you draw? And so she knows. [00:57:07] Speaker C: Validation inside the corporate world, you can't get better than that, especially from your own team, right? [00:57:14] Speaker A: I mean, these are people I've hired. [00:57:15] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think eventually these things will become normalized again, even in the workplace, because, you know, we all need guidance at times. And it'd be good to actually be able to reach out to each other and say, can you look at this for me? [00:57:27] Speaker C: Well. [00:57:27] Speaker A: And is we got the goal. Yeah. I mean, the goal of Reiki, the goal of intuitive, the goal of all of these different healing things in every, every capacity is if we all turn it on at one time, what would that do for the wars? What would that do globally? What would that do for anger and jealousy and racism and all these other things? If we all turn that part of our life on, on a regular basis, your own balance in your own space, right? In your own, your own way, your own capacity doesn't have to be full blast immersive spirit in your face like we are, but in whatever way, you know, you want to noodle on. Yeah. [00:58:05] Speaker B: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I was going to ask you, how can people find you and, yeah, work with you? [00:58:14] Speaker A: So we are on immersivespirit.com, which, of course, is immersive. Sorry, I'm spelling it in my head, spirit.com. we're on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, but of course, you can find all those links directly on our website. And all of our services are right there on the services tab. We're happy we even offer a free consultation session. So if you want to schedule a 15 minutes call to either meet with Natalie or myself just to see if you even like us before you go buy in a service, we're happy to do that. [00:58:52] Speaker B: Awesome. Awesome. I'll provide links in the show notes for all that as well. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:58:57] Speaker B: Easily. Thank you so much for coming on to supernormalize, then having a really good talk about spirit and spirit connection and intuition and everything. It's been awesome. Thank you so much both. [00:59:09] Speaker A: Thank you, CJ, for having us. [00:59:13] Speaker B: All right, I'll say goodbye to listeners. That was an awesome talk. I really love it when you can actually be open with people and just go right into their understanding of spirit, and it sort of resonates really deeply with all of us. And that was three people. That was my first time. And I actually had a conversation with three people or two other people at the same time. Three people. I probably talked to myself, too. Yep, that's right. Anyway, I've enjoyed that episode immensely myself. It was a great conversation and it did show and expose that people that are seemingly normal, like in the corporate world, which they live in, they actually also. So now I should say they work in. They also have this other side which is in contact with spirit and doing spirit work. And that's, to me, amazing and very, very cool. If you've enjoyed this episode with Stephanie and Natalie, please go to their website, immersivespirit.com and connect with them. And even if you don't want to actually have a session with them, but you're still interested in other ways and just wanted to say thanks. Just jump on there and say thanks. That'd be really awesome. And yeah, if you've enjoyed this show, please, and you're on YouTube, I'll do the thing on the video, which is like, and subscribe down the bottom. And also please, if you're on a podcast app and you've enjoyed the show too, just to add some value to it, by enjoying it, you could also please tell others. So share it to one friend and if you feel inclined, get on the app and give us a five star rating and write something super nice. That'd be very cool, too. So thank you again for enjoying today's episode as much as I did. And until next episode. So it's bye for now.