Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think figuring out a value system. What do I believe? What are, what are my values? You know, write those down, figure them out. Some people you ask, what are your values? Right. And I don't think they can tell you.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Welcome to Super Normalize, the podcast where we challenge the conventional, break boundaries, and normalize the seemingly supernatural. Join me, CJ as we explore less uncharted realms of existence and unravel the mysteries of life experience. My treasured listeners. If you have a life story or healing modality or unique knowledge that you'd love to share, reach out to me at Super Normalized. That's Super Normalized with a Z at Proton me. Let's together embrace acceptance of the supernatural and, and unusual as what it really is. Completely normal. Today on Super Normalize, you'll hear from John Lawyer. John Lawyer's journey is a captivating tale that encompasses both the battlefield and the realm of spirituality. Having served as a warrior in Kuwait, Baghdad and Kandahar for many years, he underwent a profound transformation to become a spiritualist and universalist. As a former counterintelligence special agent and asymmetric warfare specialist, John's military background is impressive, having received a bronze Star for his exceptional work and counterterrorism operations. However, this path took an unexpected turn as he navigated through the depths of despair and emerged onto a remarkable path of spiritual healing and awareness. Today, John serves as a guide within the Kishar online spiritual community, offering individual coaching and guidance to those seeking their own unique spiritual journey. And as an omnist, he embraces the wisdom found in diverse human thought from across the globe and throughout history. Enjoy my talk with John.
Welcome to Supernormalized John Lawyer. John, you've done a lot of work on yourself over the years. You've been through basically living hell zones and come back.
Do you want to share a part of your origin story of how you got to where you are today and what, what actually happened to you?
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you, cj.
You know, yeah, I, I joined the army right out of high school, this is before 911 and then went through training. 911 happened and so I spent about half of my first five year enlistment in overseas in Kuwait and after that I, I stayed in the with within the Department of Defense as a civilian working in Iraq and then later Afghanistan, probably about 12 years in the desert on and off for about a 15 year period. First 15 years of my adult life really.
And yeah, there was a lot that came with that. It was an exciting job, it was interesting job. It was a job that I Had passion for and one that I had kind of wanted to do my whole life. And. But it's also one of those be careful what you wish for situations, because there's obviously a price tag that comes with. You know, there's trauma, there's all that stuff that comes with going to war and. And being in combat zones and kind of being part of this military industrial complex machine that kind of. It chews people up and spits them out on the friendly side, it. It chews people up on the enemy side. And it's a. It's kind of a hard thing to kind of. To look at sometimes. And I think that definitely took its toll on me. So that was kind of my start. And then I came home, and one of the interesting things about it, my wife of 20 years now, she was with me throughout almost all of that. She did a very similar job. And so we were in these places together, and we came home and, you know, it was time to kind of hang the spurs up and figure out how to heal and didn't really have an identity and didn't really know who I was. So it was a searching time. And that lasted about seven years. Coming home to North Texas and. And then one day, kind of out of the blue, wasn't really on any kind of spiritual path or anything like that, but I had this moment of understanding or clarity or awakening, whatever it's called, and it was warm. And I kind of recognized my oneness with the universe, and I really just understood what my purpose was, my higher purpose. And I wanted to help people help themselves find their wholeness. And.
And that's what I've been doing the last couple years now.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Right, right.
As part of your awakening, what was that like for you? I mean, you. You went from, like, one direction altogether into a completely nearly opposite direction. It sounds.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it was.
It was confusing a little bit because I wasn't on a spiritual path. Like, if you'd asked me a little over two years ago what the ego was in relationship to spirituality in the mind and everything, I probably wouldn't be able to give you a definition necessarily. And so having had this moment, I kind of had to work backwards to understand how to speak about it and talk about it with people and in ways that they would understand. So it was this very warm thing. It was this very uplifting, joyful thing, but it was also a confusing thing because I wanted to be able to talk to people about it. So there was a lot of reading involved. There's a lot of talking to people as much as I could online and sharing experiences and discussing it and.
And a lot of work. And it was a really warm experience over the last couple years doing that. But it was definitely something that was totally unexpected.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Right. So was it like a moment of being touched by some sort of something more than you?
[00:06:37] Speaker A: I think that for me, it was this recognition that I am the universe. The universe is me. Like, I am you, you are me. Like, where there's this, like, that pantheistic oneness I think, of, whether it's the Hindu Brahmin or the Dao or Christ consciousness, whatever you want to call it, this connection to everything is what I felt.
And that I had a real clear idea to me at least, that, like, all this great human thought around the world throughout time was all connected, that it's all. We're all saying very similar things in different ways.
And.
Yeah, so that. That all felt very clear to me at that. At that moment.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Right, right. And then that played into you doing some research on it and trying to understand it more and what was going on for you. Is that what happened?
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. I think I read 60 books in about four months.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
That's dedicated.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I was. I. I was. I was very interested to figure out what was going on.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: What was resonating for you in those books that you were reading? I mean, which ones did you pick up and go, oh, wow, this is more it than the other ones.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I think being a believer in all things being valid, you still have things that resonate more with you as an individual. And for me, I really like the certain aspects of Hinduism, especially the Brahman and the universal aspect of it, less the individual gods, but the. The dow and the balance of the universe really resonated with me. And I really liked Brady and Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. It was a book on Native American indigenous religion.
And it had a deep impact that, you know, we're not just in nature, we are nature. And that connection with.
With everything. And also that humans are not necessarily, you know, we're not the apex species. We're. We're very young in terms of the. The universe and the earth, even. So I think that resonated with me too.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Right, right.
So we are nature. Can you explain what you mean by that?
[00:08:52] Speaker A: I think that whether it's a tree or a plant, you know, I. I think we all have consciousness. I think we're all these living things that are part of this really amazing system that is unified, you know, almost like the Gaia theory. Right. Of A living, breathing earth.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: And I think that.
I think we don't see it. You know, most of us spend time in cities around cement and gray, and we don't see the green and we're not part of it, we're not out in it. And we lose that touch with ourselves, you know, from that nature perspective that we're connected to all this.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Out there.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
I'm not being oppositional by asking those questions. I totally believe that full connectedness myself already. I mean, that's. Where else would I run a podcast called Super Normalized, Right?
[00:09:48] Speaker A: No, absolutely.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
So that connectedness played out in your life in different ways after that. I mean, you read all these books and it started to. To change your mind and change your way of being in the world. What were you inspired to do as you went along with your growth and understanding and connectedness to the infinite?
[00:10:12] Speaker A: I knew that I wanted to share my journey with others. I wanted to have them share theirs with me. I wanted to challenge the way that we ask questions, the questions that we asked. I wanted to. I wanted to. Us to collectively see if we could look at different answers and, and that it might be a moving target at times, the. The truth or whatever it may be. And that I thought maybe I could. The best way I could do that. I had an idea to start an online spiritual community and see if we could connect people that way. And I went, became a certified professional coach so I could be a spiritual coaching guide and have some bona fees there and, and some training.
And really I thought in this modern world, there's gotta be a way for us to still be authentic human and have meaningful experiences online, even if we're not co. Located or, or connected in the same space. So that's kind of what it led to.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How did your time in the military shape your perspective on life and spirituality? I mean, did, did, did you go through experiences that really like, pressed all your buttons in certain ways to make you want to seek out this sort of change?
[00:11:26] Speaker A: I think it did. I think. I didn't know at the time. I wasn't cognizant of it. You know, I think it goes back to that idea that we're on the journey whether we know it or not.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: And I think being able to.
I mean, you can do altruistic things and think, oh, well, I'm. I'm in the military or I'm a civilian supporting the military, and I'm trying to save lives or protect things and do that, and it's an altruistic goal, potentially. Right. But then you also understand I'm part of this dark machine. It's just the grinding things up and. And we're fighting people that are out there just trying to live their lives and put food on the table and. And live their own existence. And I think that being part of that darkness, seeing that darkness, I think that that informed me of the balance of the universe, the light in the dark, and that it makes it. I think sometimes if you can find your. I, you know, that's kind of darkness you can get lost in. And I did get lost in it, but not completely. Not so much that I wasn't able to find my way out.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: And so I think if you can find your way out of that, and I think we all can, then suddenly you have this great perspective on this universal balance of, oh, I've been. I've seen this great darkness, but there's this great light over here. And so, yeah, I think that's deeply informed my view of spirituality and how I can practice it and how I can help others help themselves and find their wholeness, even if they don't know that they're whole right now. They are. They just don't see it. Right.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think we essentially, we do have. We are a part of the infinite in the first place, and then we put all these masks on of who we are and how we should be.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: And then also.
Yeah. Reactive and actions which. Which are pretty much almost programmed, you know, by society and conditioning. But underneath all that, you know, we. We do have that spark of, you know, pure infinity, which is unlimited. Really.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: I. I really love that you say that because, you know, this. This idea of. Of the infinite, you know, is. It's just so powerful. Right. And I think it's something that. That can draw us close together, and it's worth. It's worth leaning into.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: So can you tell us a little bit more about your role as a counterintelligence Special Agent and asymmetric warfare specialist? I mean, how did that affect you being that.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a pretty unique job. You know, as a counterintelligence Special Agent, my job was to.
Tried to keep other countries from spying on us and also neutralize terrorism operations as well. And.
And then.
So it's. It's trying to spy versus spy kind of, but there's also a lot of paperwork involved.
So there's not as. Not always as cool as it sounds. Sometimes it is.
And then there's. On the asymmetric warfare side, especially my six and a half years in Afghanistan. I spent six and a half years consecutively in Afghanistan. And it's a long time. That was. Yeah, it was too. Too long, that experience doing asymmetric warfare. We were responsible for picking objectives for capture operations and where to drop bombs. It was a very intense, you know, existence. And you're working 180, 100, 110 hours a week, seven days a week. And then I think that one thing I note about that is I didn't realize it at the time, but my.
And this is hard to say out loud sometimes, but I was kind of living my higher purpose at the time. I was fully dedicated to this thing.
It was like. It was kind of like my. My focus and. And. And my. Everything was like, poured into this. And so that experience has kind of.
I'm obviously living a different, higher purpose now, and I much prefer this one, but I think that it shows that what we're doing in life can change.
And I think that I'm. I'm still exploring how that experience has.
Has molded me into the person I am today. Because I think that even as we separate from trauma, as we separate from PTSD and these attachments that we have, because I'm a big proponent of letting go, I think that as we let those attachments go, that person that we were is still a part of us. And so we have to kind of reconcile that and accept it.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: How do you reconcile that and accept it? I mean, that's. That's something that sounds like it would be a tough deal. I mean, it's like almost like rubbing a scar.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that. No, that's a great question.
I think that it takes. I don't think that forgiveness, whether it's forgiveness of yourself, whether it's forgiveness of others, I don't think it's a thing that happens overnight. Right.
It's. It's this thing that you have to say you're gonna do it and have the intention to do it, have the awareness to do it. And then I think you really have to check back with yourself, and you're like, hey, how's this going?
Have you let go of this thing? And. And, you know, often I think that answer is, well, kind of. But no, not. Not completely.
And so I think it's a process. I think it's not something that happens overnight. I think sometimes it can be if it's. There's degrees of severity of what you're dealing with. Right.
But it's. It's something that.
That I think to let go of it. You also have to.
When you're. You're letting go of this dark thing, I think that we have to see, well, what's the, what's the balance of this in the universe? Well, it's this light.
And I think that then we have to know that light inside. We have to let it go. We have to let it out, I guess, is it not let it go, but we have to let our light out so that it guides us and we can see further. We can see clearer down a path that is more, again, intentional and aware for us. I think that's how we do it.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. The path to self forgiveness can be quite hard, but also absolutely necessary. Otherwise you just can't move through these things and change them into an understanding that you can grow from.
Yeah. So can you describe the challenges you face during your journey from a place of sadness to spiritual healing and awareness?
[00:18:37] Speaker A: I think the, the biggest change for me is it's that cliche of being present in the moment, like deciding that I'm not going to live my past, I'm not going to worry about this thing in the future.
I can appreciate. I think gratitude's involved of, hey, what do I have? It's not what I want or even what I need tomorrow. What do I have today?
And how is that? Okay.
And the future is a tricky thing because, I mean, we do live in the real world. So we can't just kind of meditate on a mountain forever and just kind of pretend the world doesn't exist.
So if I'm living in the real world, if I do have something that's bothering me in the future, is there something I can do about it today?
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Then, then do that thing. You know, do my future self a solid. Do that thing. But if not, you know, let it go.
So I think that being present, it's cliche for a reason. It's, it's, it's a big spiritual topic for a reason. And I think it's because it works. I think it's.
And I think that there is this big aspect of taking care of yourself before you take care of anything else. If we don't have that self love, that self care, it's the. We can't help anybody else. We can't help any part of the world. If we're not taking care of ourselves and that. And if we're taking care of ourself and we're filling ourselves up with this loving kindness, the self care, the self love, then suddenly the world is a brighter place around us. So we're automatically helping people out, even if we're, Even if we don't know it.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. So when the plane's going down, if you put your oxygen mask on first, more than likely you can help the others around you. So definitely a wise thing to do. And I think that that sense of becoming ultimately present, it seems like, like a really logical and obvious thing to do. But when you first start doing might, it might just seem way too simple, but it is literally that simple, like finding that, that sense of presence. Because in that moment of being here and now, all your worries from the past and the future just definitely are not here. And then you can actually, as you said, you can find a sense of gratitude for what you have and who you are and, and the way the world is, because it is all happening just now, right here. Yeah.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I love that, that you say that it's almost too simple.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: That people are like, it can't be that simple, you know, And I, you know, and there's all these books about how to do it, you know, whether it's be here now or the power of now or whatever. Right. There's all these books.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah, Lots of books.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: But it's, it's, it's easier said than done, for sure.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think that point of being here now is also a sense of maybe just being satisfied with now.
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Acceptance. Right. I think there's a lot of stuff in the world that goes right when you lean on acceptance. It's that forgiveness part. And also non judgment. Right. Non judgment of ourselves. When we, and when we stop judging other people, like, suddenly the world is like, man, it's a lot, it's a lot easier.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Well, yeah, but sometimes judgment from other. Of other people, it might, it might just seem justified. The moment like, you know, when somebody drives in front of you on the freeway, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm the best driver in the universe. You aren't.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: I think we all do.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I, I didn't know there were other best drivers in the universe out there. I'm glad to know that.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: So.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Thought it was just. I thought it was just me.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Okay.
Excellent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's good to, it's good to realize these things, I think, and, and that, you know, you people aren't islands. You know, we, we all experience the same thing in a different way. Otherwise, as you said, you know, there's so many books about, you know, self awareness and, and, and being here in the now why wouldn't these books turn up unless these things that happen to other people as well. Right. So. Yeah, yeah. Even in your own suffering, there's a lot of people out there that actually have, have a. Similar or, or same experiences and they're going through stuff too, and you may not know. And so when they're not reacting or acting in the right way, then you know where it's coming from.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: No, and I, I think that's why empathy is so important. Right. Is because we never know. We never know what the other driver's thinking. We never know what that person walking through the lobby is thinking or down the street. And yeah, I think when we start to treat each other with this like humanity, then like the world becomes as much. Warmer place.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely warmer place.
So how did you become involved with the, the Kishar online spiritual community? I mean, what is that?
[00:23:30] Speaker A: First of all, it's, it's this thing that my wife and I have been working on and a friend of ours that was with us in Afghanistan, another woman from Bosnia in the Balkans. And we've, we've been working on this thing for over two years now, doing something every day to make it happen. And it launched last month in October. And it's, you know, we, we thought about, well, what do we name this thing? What do we name this thing that we're working on that we love? And we named it after the Sumerian goddess of essentially Mother Earth. And she. Yeah, thank you. And she also represents the line on the horizon, I think, which encompasses this journey that we're all on. Right.
So that's, that's where it kind of the origin of it came from.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Okay, and what is the purpose of your spiritual community that you're building?
[00:24:24] Speaker A: It's a non profit place. It's. There's still a fee for monthly membership. And we also do provide individual one on one coaching and guidance, spiritual guidance services. But all that, all those funds go back into the community to help members out. It's really a place to, that's safe and calm and peaceful. That's not Facebook, not Instagram, not TikTok. It's just a place where people can have daily meditation prompts, some affirmations that can help people out, discussions on journaling or other spiritual topics that we talk about each day. And part of it is the, the metaphysical stuff that is, okay, how do we walk this spiritual path, where we're going, what it's all about. And then there's also the aspects of lifestyle, of sleeping and eating and wellness and Our nutrition and health and how that all plays into it. And I think it's finding that balance. And so that's what we do is a little bit of all that.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Right, right. Does it have any faith based parts of it or.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: It's essentially a universalist community. So come as you are, come believe whatever you want. If you're a Buddhist, that's fine. If you're an atheist, that's fine.
You know, it's, it's not, it's agnostic to belief. And so it's, it, it is intended to try to remove dogma and, and that ecclesiastical governance part of religion. So if you're coming in with religion, that's fine, but just that's, that's, let's, let's look at the spiritual aspects of it versus the dogma that comes with that, that religion.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. Cool.
Okay. So as an ominist or a universalist, what does it mean to you to embrace a validity of great human thought from around the world and across time?
[00:26:23] Speaker A: I think that if we go back to like prehistory, pre human history, right, where we, all the scientists and archaeologists kind of say we probably walked out of Africa altogether and migrated around the world.
You know, maybe that's why we're all kind of saying the same thing across religions. If you read across spiritual constructs and you look at, you know, why we're all, if you look at the golden rule across time and it's all kind of saying the same thing, whether it's the New Testament or going back to Gama Buddha or back to ancient Egypt. You know, it's because we're, we're all walking probably very unique personal paths, but they have a lot of crossover. And so I think that it's about appreciating it, but it's also about studying it. How can we, can we come together and look at this together and decide what we think and change our beliefs and change our, our launch points and change our landing point? I think that's what that, that, that, that's what that's about.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Right, right, right. So it's basically a, a continuous reaching for greater understanding of the self and their relation to the universe.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Always ask them why.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Always ask the why. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
You're also a spiritual seeker, but also a spiritual guide and coach and who might benefit from your one on one work.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: I think anybody that is looking to get started in spirituality and figure out where their path is going, like I said, it's not about helping people necessarily directly it's about helping them help themselves and find their way, find their light and be able to use it. So I think it's for people that want to pursue that path and move down it. It's also for people that are on it and want to figure out how they balance that in the real world. And one of the things that we talk about extensively is the. Your higher purpose or dharma. Like, what is your higher purpose or dharma? Do you. Do you know what it is? Do you have an essence of. If you don't kind of think about that and then once you kind of start to get it, then how do you align your higher purpose, which you're. And I think we each have a unique individual one here on this. This planet. We're, on this existence that we're living. But how do you then take that higher purpose that, that dharma that you come to understand, and how do you live it in your daily life? How do you align it with your daily life? How do you align it with your job or your vocation, which is where you spend a lot of your time?
And I think resolving that question and working on that is a big part of it.
But also just general, spiritual, you know, how do I walk the path? Where am I going? What do I want? And also being grounded in lifestyle. I think all of these things can come up in one on one situations, and people can have better answers about how to kind of be centered and grounded.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Do you have any popular modalities that you recommend for people that are starting out to find their way?
[00:29:35] Speaker A: I think that the, the most important thing when starting out is to.
To start with self, love, have some patience.
I think those are important things. I think that.
I think figuring out a value system. What do I believe? What are, what are my values? You know, write those down. Figure them out. Some people you ask, what are your values? Right. And I don't think they can tell you.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah, they've never looked at themselves.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's that inner. Inner. It's that look inside, you know, what, what am I? Who am I? You know, it's Ramana Maharishi, right? It's. Is, who am I? You know? Yeah, I'm not my name. I'm not. And you talked about it earlier, like, we're. We have all these things that we've been told by our tribes, by our tribe, of our family, our community, our teachers, our co workers, our bosses, that you're this, you're. That you're the other. Right. We've all been told. And that, that's that? So, like, we have to figure out what we believe.
Like, what do I believe? What. What do I believe based on my own experience in this reality that I'm living?
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: Reality being a little bit of a sketchy subject.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: What do you think reality is then?
[00:31:05] Speaker A: I. I think that reality. I think our individual consciousness, our universal consciousness behind the ego and the mind creates our individual reality. And it's like a bubble. And I think that reality bubble interacts with all these other reality bubbles of individuals and. And things like plants and trees and. And animals, and that creates kind of how our collective world shows up in front of us.
And I think some people have bigger bubbles and smaller bubbles, and some are more pliable. Some. You know, that's why when someone walks into a room, they can change the energy of a room, you know, so that's kind of my. My base belief.
[00:31:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I sort of thought that one myself as well in the past. And you just repeating it then and talking about it just then just made me remember, like. Oh, yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Interesting.
So you've spent a lot of time in the desert because of your prior work. Did you have any experiences out there that actually led you upon your spiritual path that you may not have actually recognized at the time? It might have been just the experience itself of being there?
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I have a deep.
When I was a kid, I watched Lawrence of Arabia, and I was deeply drawn to the desert. I wanted to be Lawrence, and so I was deeply drawn to the desert. I spent some time in the desert on vacations as a kid. It spoke to me then.
Even places like the Badlands in South Dakota, uh, and, you know, so growing up, spending all this time in the desert, I kind of embraced the heat and liked it. And yeah, it. It definitely changed me. And I'm still to this day drawn to the desert. And I think there's a lot of. There's a lot of power in the desert that is. There's something very spiritual about it. Um, it. It's kind of like. Because it's. It's. It's so hot. It's cold. It's also very cold.
Right. And.
And you look at. You look out across it, and there's just nothing that is human. Right. It's just these. This is nature. It's just this expanse where we're not. We haven't built cities and we haven't built settlements. And. Yeah, there's something very deeply touching about the desert.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: For sure. For sure. I can agree with that I've been out to the Australian desert and also to the Nevada desert, and those big open player spaces are just enormous, and they still embrace you in a really different sort of way. That's what I found.
Being that deeply in touch with nature changed me in a certain sort of way. And I'd love to go back for sure. Especially the Nevada visit.
What is a stream of unconsciousness? What is the stream of unconsciousness, and what does that mean to you?
[00:33:51] Speaker A: For me, that gets a little bit back to what our. Our little miniature tribes and our community and society tells us. Right. But for me, the stream of unconsciousness is this. It's a pull. It never stops. It's always there. It's collective consciousness pulling us, saying, oh, there's this stream, and you're in it. It's warm, it's inviting, it's safe. Stay in it. Your ego and mind tell you to stay in it. And I think that if you. It's not very deep. If you just stand up, you're like, okay, I can look around. Oh, there's all this beautiful stuff out there that no one told me about.
Because, you know, and. And for me, that's. That's what the stream of unconscious is. And that. What it does is it pulls us to the collective consciousness, away from our own individual bubble of. Of that we can create for ourselves. And it also.
It kind of saps our magic. Right. When we're children, we have this magic inside of us. We have this magic that we're born with. And I don't believe it's supernatural. I believe it's natural magic. It's like, you know, whether you call it supernatural, natural, it's the same to me. It's the same thing.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: And that gets pulled out of us as we grow up. It's that whole, like Peter Pan and the Lost Boys. Right? Like that magic of childhood as well.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Yeah. I think we all grow up with that magic at the start and it gets lost. I mean, I. I went through that myself as. As a teenager and basically suppressed all of my connection to the infinite and my understanding of it to try to integrate into society. And that just gave me anxiety and depression, which wasn't really good. And eventually I found my way out of that and came back to just realizing, it's okay, I'm a weirdo. That's fine.
[00:35:39] Speaker A: Right?
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Well, I mean, by other people's definitions, but, you know, that actually is normal. That's part of the reason why I run this podcast, is to help other people realize that it's all totally normal and all these things are a part of us and our nature as you say, for sure.
How do we navigate the spiritual path in the modern age? I mean, we have so many distractions continuously and it seems like social media and the news is always attempting to put us in divisive positions and at odds with each other amongst all that. How, how do you actually, you know, navigate that in today's age and still be spiritual?
[00:36:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really deep question. I think that, I think the first part is perspective. I think perspectives are like really important, like how we approach things. And I think that we have to start out by, by talking with each other about how.
I think it goes back to that gratitude practice of how lucky we are to be alive right now. How lucky we are to have the access to the information that we do, to have the health that we do, to just all the things we have in our lives that are these really great things. And I think if we do that, we can look at the social media and the algorithm. Right? The algorithm spits this stuff at us, right? But we don't have to accept what is sent towards us like on, on Facebook. If we want to engage with open minded, positive people, we can seek them out if we want to, you know, not be impacted by the local news and the fact that they all they ever focus on is the negative. We don't have to accept that or the national news and accept that if we, we don't have to hate our neighbor because we're told to hate our neighbor because we're led to believe that our neighbor believes this thing and I believe that thing and we actually agree on like 90% of the things in the world. But this 10 that we disagree on means that we should hate our neighbor.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: Right?
[00:37:43] Speaker A: And I, I think we, if we take all of that, we can really walk a very positive, warm thing, warm way of being in this modern society. There's all this good stuff. People are being born, people are graduating college, they're having relationships and falling in love. There's all these great things happening. We just have to open our eyes and see it and choose, choose to accept and love that.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, normal regular life is actually quite amazing. If we just drop away all of the other stories that we've been told about maybe what we should be and who we should be and where we should be and who we should not like and things like that. I mean, yeah, stepping away from all that life is actually a very special and beautiful experience.
So what's the difference? Between spirituality. Let me just rewind that. What's the difference between spirituality, art, science, philosophy, religion, and self help?
[00:38:49] Speaker A: I think those are all, for me there. Those are all synonyms. They're the same. The same thing. I think that it's all about a search for understanding.
And I think that I was reading a book on philosophy the other day, the forward by these two Cambridge philosophy professors or students or whoever they were, they were saying, talking about how much the occult and metaphysical thinking and philosophy has impacted science and. And how far we've come in modern science. And I think that.
I think it comes down to also, you know, art is creativity, and that's part of who we are as humans. And philosophy and spirituality and religion are really all just different words for thinking about who we are and why we're here and what we're all about. And science is also efforting that same thing. And I think if we get too dedicated to any one of those, then we just become zealots of that system and instead of seeing it as this coexisting thing.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. You can become almost like a religious fundamentalist for any one thing if you choose to. But then, like you said, that's getting lost in the reeds in some ways and also could be a distraction and maybe a path that doesn't really lead anywhere. If you get too caught up in it, then you actually are not available to recognize other ways of being and other ways of self expression and personal growth too.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: Yeah, we get so lost in the search or the destination, we forget to enjoy the journey and the walk along the way and all this stuff that's out there.
[00:40:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was listening to another podcast the other day and they were talking about the importance of play and that animals play all the time. You know, they might be doing the regular thing like feeding and nurturing young and making nests and all sorts of things like this, but they also find time to play. And that's one of the things that as humans, we need to actually be able to do that too. And I don't mean sitting down on your VR unit and getting your gaming system out and, you know, doing a one person shooter or anything like that. It's much more than that. It's actually being silly and getting out there and maybe dancing ecstatic dance is a good way to do it, you know, and these things actually help us to reconnect with ourselves and our truest forms of nature.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I love your idea of getting out there and playing and. And in Movement, like, intentional movement is this huge thing. The universe is in motion. It's always changing. Probably the only absolute in the universe is change in motion. And so if you embrace that, suddenly you're alive. You're universally alive.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah. One of the strangest things I've probably ever done was I was with a partner, and she was into interpretive dance. And I was like, what is that?
She said, one of the leaders in interpretive dances going to be teaching one time, come along. And I went along, and it was so bizarre because you had to, like, he would play music, and you had to interpret that as a dance. And I was like, I've never done anything like this ever in my life.
And by the end of the whole weekend, you know, we'd probably done about 20 dances to different tracks and stuff. And we had to come up with our own. With our own music at the last part of it, and it all made sense by the end of it. It felt like you were telling a story by movement. I was like, wow, this is totally weird and sort of cool in a weird way. But at the start, I was like, wow, this is strangely nerdy and dance nerdy sort of thing. But it did free me up in different ways in. Of understanding of how. How communication can happen. And then that also can connect us to a form of, like, a spirituality in the moment and of the moment.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good story.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
What is being open to the universe mean to you?
[00:43:04] Speaker A: I think since we. We are the universe. The universe is us and all these other people out there, and vice versa, and all, you know, this. This tie that binds. I think that when we're open to the universe, we're open to the possibility of. Of anything. Of what, you know, and. And whatever our intention is, whatever we're thinking about, whatever we focus on, then that's coming to us. That. What do you call, law of attraction or manifestation? Right. It doesn't matter. Like, call it magic, you know, spell prairie. There's a lot of different words for this thing. You know, if you're open to the universe, then you're. You're ready for something to happen. You're. You're meeting the universe maybe halfway by being open about it. Like, oh, I'm aware that I'm open to the universe, so I'm. I'm gonna go also do the work and meet the universe halfway for whatever it is I'm seeking then. I just think there's really a lot of joy and power in. In that space.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: So it's like the universe actually is giving you continuous, active invitations to change and growth. And when you're, when you're available and you can hear it then and you know, take up the chance of change, then things happen.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Absolutely. That's what it's all about. And, and if we ask the universe for something or. And sometimes we unconsciously ask the universe for things, if we're not like out there aware of the universe and being open to it, we'll dismiss it.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's interesting how the unconscious can play into those things. It's like when you're a bit caught up in say like all the mental loops that don't really help us, then that can actually manufacture all sorts of drama for you if they're negative and unhelpful and even manifests more to enhance that story. So, you know, being aware of that, becoming, you know, mindful of that can change pretty much everything, you know, by putting it back into the now and what you have and how great it is and.
Yeah, and you can actually flower from there.
[00:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Flower. I love that.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's all about expansion in the end.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it absolutely is. Growing. Learn every day, right? Grow every day.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
So John, how can people find you and you know, learn more about your understanding and your spiritual process and maybe connect with you and maybe do one on one coaching? Where can they find John Lawyer?
[00:45:49] Speaker A: Yes, our website, our main site is keyshar.org that's K-S-H-A-R.org and we are really loving people dropping by recently after we launched. So that's exciting. And we also have a public facing YouTube channel that's completely free and open and has just good videos about how to kind of walk the spiritual path and, and do it in a way that makes sense to, to each person's unique path. So that's the, that's kind of our. Where we're at.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Nice. Now, if there's any, any one message that you'd like to get out to people during these, you know, really intense times that we're all going through, what is something that you'd love to be able to share? I mean, if you had a loudspeaker to the whole world, what would you say?
[00:46:47] Speaker A: I'd go back to love yourself and don't chase perfection, because it's not, it's not something that you need to do because you're perfect inside and whole. So just love yourself, don't chase perfection. It'll be okay.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Beautiful. Beautiful. Excellent.
Well, John, is there any questions that I should have asked that I didn't actually ask?
[00:47:11] Speaker A: No, I, you're a really great and gracious host, so I really appreciate the opportunity to come and have a discussion.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: Excellent. Well, thank you so much for your time, John. I, I appreciate your sharing here today and your understandings. And I'll link all of, I'll link people to your, your site, kishar.org in the show notes. And yeah, thank you so much for your time.
[00:47:33] Speaker A: Thank you. Appreciate it, C.J.
[00:47:35] Speaker B: All right. I'll say goodbye to listeners now. Bye for now.
Thanks to John for coming on today. That was a pleasure to talk with you and I'm sure all of my listeners enjoyed that as well. John's got some really good angles on self understanding and potentially ways for getting through a lot of intense sort of experiences and reaching towards a more spiritual, more spiritual life and an easier path and being absolutely present. And I appreciate all that he shared. So thanks to John. And if you've enjoyed today's show and you think somebody should hear this show, please share to them directly. Otherwise, if you have something you'd like to share on the show, please get in contact with me at Supernormalized Proton Me.
And if you'd like the show a lot, please give me a five star rating and write something nice. I'd appreciate that. Until next show, thank you so much and bye for LA.
