Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Even as a pastor, even as somebody who I've been a Christian my whole life, there's times when I struggle too. I struggle with my faith.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Today on supernormalize, we dive deep into the life of an inspiring individual making difference in her community. I'm featuring Debbie Howe. We're talking about her authorship and how she's a speaker and devoted servant of Christ and who has made it her life's mission to empower others in faith Joy journeys. Debbie and I have a great discussion about her understanding of faith and how that can help people in finding guidance in their own lives during troubled times. Which is really important, I think, because there are times when we do have a lot of darkness and not all of that darkness is self generated. It can be actually, you know, influenced from horrible things that are in our spheres of influence, ourselves. So if you're looking to find new ways to actually connect with God and your understanding of the world and importance of that and how it's actually helped Debbie and her understanding of the world and helping others, this is a good episode for you. So on with the show.
Looking at the statistics that I have for YouTube and for my podcast apps, I have a lot of listeners and viewers that aren't yet liked and subscribed. So if you're on YouTube, like, and subscribe, it's free. And if you're on a podcast app, please give me five stars. That'd be really cool. It helps other people find these great conversations too. Thank you.
Welcome to Super Normalized Pastor Debbie Howell. Pastor Debbie, is that the right thing? Is that right the right way to address you, or that is perfectly fine?
Well, I'll say, Pastor Debbie, because I think that's respectful. So, Pastor Debbie, you're a passionate author, speaker, and devoted servant of Christ. Has that been a path in your life, your whole life, or is that something that you came to?
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Well, I have been in ministry for years in different churches, you know, different ministries, you know, where they've needed help. And I've always loved doing that, but I just recently became a pastor, so I just loved to help people, to get to know people. So I took the step to take the classes so that I could be pastoring and helping people full time.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Nice. Nice. And what inspired you to do that? I mean, was there any events in your own life or was it or in the lives of people around you? Did something happen to make you get inspired to take that leap?
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Well, that's an interesting question because you would think that that kind of a path would be like, I was in a really great place, and I wanted to, you know, help people, but it actually kind of was birthed out of a divorce that I went through after being married for over 30 years and kind of saying, okay, God, what's next? What's next for me? And then he brought the opportunity to me so that I could go back to college with an online program and become a pastor. Pastor. So because now I was like, okay, I've raised my kids. You know, I've helped my ex build his business for over 20 years. Now it's just me, like, what's my path forward? And that's the door God opened for me.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: And in your own personal opinion, why is ministering for Christ so important right now in your understanding of the world and the way the world is?
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a very good question.
I think so many things are happening around us that really causing a lot of fear in people's hearts. You know, first of all, with COVID I mean, the whole world was wondering, you know, am I going to survive this pandemic? And then, you know, now I'm in America. So now with the new president who's taken over, there's a lot of fear and uncertainty in the hearts of a lot of people. So it's just to help people remember that God is with them, that he's in control, and he doesn't want us to be afraid. He doesn't want us to be anxious or depressed or all these things that take a hold of us when we just feel like our world is spinning out of control around us.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: And so do you think that the experience of God can be a personal one for people?
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Definitely. And in fact, I think that's what he wants for each one of us. You know, a lot of people who call themselves Christian, you know, they commit to going to church every week, and that's a great thing. But God wants so much more for us than that. He wants us to spend time with him and get to know him for ourselves.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Okay, and what are the benefits, do you think, for people that finally take that leap for themselves and go further with their faith?
[00:04:30] Speaker A: I feel like it definitely is something that can bring us strength and peace, especially during the hard times. I mean, the Bible is full of stories of how God was with his people at all times, but especially when we need him most, during times of crisis or uncertainty, that he speaks to us through his word. His Holy Spirit is present with us on this earth, and he wants to be our strength and our wisdom and to walk by our sides.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've had some tough times myself, and angels have reached out to push me in the right direction, and it's. It's been amazing, to say the least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you have any favorite prayers that you actually like to help people with? I mean, during these times? You know, there's a lot of, you know, of, I would say, nefarious spirits out there trying to lead people down wrong paths and everything. Is there any prayers that you use for protection or anything like that?
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Well, I know one that I love to pray scripture for one thing. So I love to, you know, find promises and things about who God is and bring them into my prayers. I think one of the most powerful prayers for protection is Psalm 91. There's a book.
Yeah, there's a small book, Psalm 91. All of these miraculous stories of people who have, like, been praying. That scripture and the way they were delivered, like, during times of war and different things, it's just remarkable. So that's definitely a scripture that I will pray my way through for people. And then I just love the. The prayers of Paul in the New Testament. You find them a lot at the end of the books that he writes, and they're just beautiful prayers of blessing and protection and God's presence for his people. People.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah. When you feel in that sort of dark space, the Psalm 91 can pull you through quite. Really well.
I found, too, from listening to another podcast these people were talking about. They said, try changing the words instead of it being general, make it personal. And. And you can actually personalize it. And when you personalize it, actually changes it all together. And again, it's more powerful.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Again, it's how you bring it into your life, into your heart.
Because now this is God talking about me. And to me.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And prayer doesn't actually have to be just with the scriptures. What. You know, people can pray just by reaching out.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: And talking to spirit, because spirit's there all the time. Right. It's like, we can't escape spirit. We're in spirit. So can you share any specific moments when you witness somebody's life transform through prayer or Bible study?
[00:06:59] Speaker A: Well, right now, currently, every week, I lead a Bible study for a group of women that are in their 80s and 90s. I even had one woman who came that was like 102. So these are women who just.
So many stories to share and just sweet ladies. And there was one. There's one in our group, and she said that she had been battling with anger most of her life. She Had a praying mom who I guess prayed for her until she passed. But her anger stemmed from some abuse that she had at the hands of her father growing up. And she just was. Had this heart of anger and unforgiveness toward him, and she just ended up like later in life. I think she was. Around the time she turned 80, God kind of. She had an encounter with him, and he set her free from the anger, and she was able to fully forgive her father. And she just. When she talks about it, you know what, maybe it's been four years ago now that this happened. There is such joy and peace in her life. And I know that's a result of all the years of her mom praying for her. And just whatever reason, God knew that this was time that she would be receptive to it. And I just. For me, there's no greater miracle than forgiving someone, you know, that wounded you as a child and who you've hated your whole life. But now God's here and he's like, I. My power in you is greater than this anger, greater than this hatred.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: And I think a part of that forgiveness, too, that people need to realize is you have to forgive yourself.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that's. I think that's a really sad part, especially when a child is hurt, is that somehow in their mind, they feel like it's their fault, you know, and it could be the perpetrator. What they tell them, you know, like this, you're a bad person, or whatever. They say to them that it's bad enough to be hurt by somebody who's supposed to protect you, but it's even worse when somehow you take it on that this is happening to me because I'm a bad person. And that just makes me so sad because it's just such a huge lie and it can plague people for the rest of their lives.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of people have a negative view of Christianity and the faith path. And how do you approach people who find prayer intimidating and feel less distance from God? Because not everyone has this connection, and they've had. Had bad experiences already. So there must be a way that you approach people when it comes to this.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Well, I just kind of want to start my answer by saying, even as a pastor, even as somebody who. I've been a Christian my whole life, there's times when I struggle, too. I struggle with my faith. I struggle in my prayer life because life is hard, and sometimes, you know, you just think things that are happening to you are so unfair. So I guess it depends on what where the person is at. Some people don't have faith, and they don't want to have faith. Like, they've kind of chosen their path. And I chose not to believe in God, not to have faith, so they're not really open to hearing what I believe or what I want to share. But if somebody is hurting, but they're truly searching for answers, I would just get to know their story, get to know who they are, and just remind them that God is love. Like, it doesn't matter if my faith can move mountains today or if I'm just struggling to even believe that God is real. Like, what end of the spectrum am I on that? That doesn't change who God is or how he loves us. And if we are, you know, truly seeking his heart, he will show up for us in ways to show us what truth is, to heal us, and to just help us to find joy in life, even through. Through the hard times.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: What is the most common struggle you see in individuals trying to engage with scripture? And how do you address it?
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Well, I can kind of talk to how I was raised in the church. You know, I've been part of great churches over the years, but the Bible was more of a mental process. Okay, so I'm reading the scripture. I believe these stories are true. I believe in God, and that's a great place to start. But most. I would. I would say just based on all the years that I've ministered to different people, that there's a pretty large percent of Christians that really don't know how to know God through scripture. I mean, we know about God, but do we know God? And so one of the things that I do in the classes that I teach and, you know, I teach in the books that I've written is how to really engage with God through scripture, through reading it, praying it, meditating on it, journaling it. I mean, we're all different. So we all can all, you know, make that creative connection with God through scripture in different ways. But to really invite the Holy Spirit into that space with us, you know, you mentioned the Spirit's always with us. So just to realize that and be intentional, to say, you know, holy Spirit, I know the Bible, but now I want to know the author of the Bible and just say, help me to see truth in this. Like, show me what is the scripture saying to me right here today? What's on God's heart for me? And begin to see scripture as an invitation from God to spend time with you so that he can speak to your heart and that you can know.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: You'Re working on two new books. Can you give us a sneak peek into what those themes will explore?
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Sure. So the first one is called One Thing I Ask, and it's my journey of learning how to Pray Scripture. It's a lot of stories. You know, some have great, like, hey, look what God did, Great endings. And some stories were more challenging where I had to really hold on in faith because I'm like, okay, I think I'm doing this right, but, like, why is everything falling apart right now? So just kind of raw, honest stories of the good and the bad in my journey. And then I'm a big advocate to application. So at the end of each chapter, I'll just give a small challenge. Okay, this is what you've read in this chapter. Try this so we can begin to engage more with God through scripture. And then my second one is one thing I do. So that's kind of the second step in the journey where now that we're getting to know the God of scripture, how is that meant to change us? How does that change who we are and how we live our lives? Because it's great to just, you know, follow scripture. Okay, I'm not going to do this, because this is sin. This is bad. But we can still be challenged with addictions. We can still be challenged with. With anger, things that we just don't know how to get on the other side of them. But as the word of God becomes alive in us, it's power. It's power for change. So how does that process happen? And then the third book is going to be called One God I Worship. And it's kind of the last step in this journey of, you know, once the word of God has become a part of who we are, our natural response is worship. But it can also happen even if our lives are messy, even if they're hard. And the kind of the main crux of this book is my journey through the grief of my divorce and finding a deeper place to worship God.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Nice. Nice. Can you talk about the importance of community in one's spiritual growth and how you've seen that play out in your own ministry?
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like this is so important. And it's also, I think, in many churches, something that's lacking in general. I kind of feel like the church has become something you go to, not something you're living out. And maybe it's because we're so busy. I don't know. I don't. I haven't really done the research to see why that's how it tends to be today. But community is so important for Christians, not only to grow themselves spiritually, but to reach out to the world and show the world who Christ is through their lives. So whether. I think it's really important to be part of a small group so that you can get to know each other and grow together spiritually. And, you know, I. What I think is kind of neat is small groups in a lot of churches are changing. You know, it's great to come together and read the Bible or great spiritual books, but some people are like, you know what, let's form a knitting club or let's form a pickleball club or so. So you're still. You have that, like, Christian community, but you're doing things that draw people into it because it's something that they're interested in. So being a part of small group, I think, is huge. Some of the groups I've led at churches, like the prayer ministry, the women's ministry, I just. I saw so many strong Christian relationships form within those groups as we came together week after week and, you know, learned together, served others together. So I just. I want to challenge people. Like, if you're a Christian and you don't feel satisfied, you don't feel like you're growing the way that you want to grow, get involved in the ministry, get involved in a small group, and watch and see how that will change your Christian experience.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: How has your personal faith evolved over the years, and what lessons have been most impactful for you as a leader?
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you have lots of good questions.
Yeah. What's interesting is, though, just like probably every other person on this planet, my first choice would be for my life to just go well and be easy. Right. But I think I've lived long enough to know that that's not the places that we grow. So I think probably the places I. The times in my life have grown the most are through the challenges. Because that's kind of where I had to really dig deep and say, okay, who is God to me and what do I believe about him?
And.
And looking back, like, my books are full of so many stories of my life's experiences. And sometimes as I go back and I read them, I'm like, I really see God's wisdom in this. Like, I can see why I had to go through this really rough season in my life, because coming out of it, you know, I knew God more and my faith got stronger, and I was in a better position to help other people as I understood their struggles and their Pain. So, yeah, I don't know that I'll ever get to the place where I will ask God to bring challenges to my life, but I can at least look back and say, thank you, God, for what I went through and for how you were with me through all of that.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Do you think that the challenges that God brings to us are a form of initiation into a higher form of life?
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. I had to process that one.
You need to write a book. Okay.
I would say. And there's a big. I don't know, there's two sides to that as far as. Does God. Is it God doing these things to me, or is it the enemy doing these things to me because I'm living in a world of sin? But outside of that, what I've learned is, yeah, we see new facets of God's love through. Through challenges, like, how can I know that he is my provider if I'm not finding myself in a time of need? How can I know that he's my healer if I don't go through times of sickness? So I really feel like God is always here, but it's in the times when we need him the most that his light just comes shining through. I've heard it said before that, you know, you can't see the stars in the broad daylight. You can only see the stars when it's dark. And so, you know, his light shines the brightest when everything around us seems dark.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Well, you just saying that reminded me of a time when I was going through a lot of darkness. I was working for a company that was sort of completely chaotic, and I felt as though I'd been abandoned by God. And I went to the lunchroom one day, and I was just so overwhelmed with all the stress and everything, and. And I sat there at the window, and it was raining. It'd been raining for weeks in this city. And I just said, look, I feel like I've been abandoned. Can you just show me something? Just show me one thing to prove that you're actually still here. And then the clouds parted just for that moment, and the sun shined right through, right on me sitting on that table. And I just burst out in tears, in happiness. And I realized that this is all a part of the story that I'm living, and it's okay. And then the clouds closed, and it kept on running for weeks. But I was like, can you get a better message than that? Right?
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. And it just does so much, I think, for our faith to know that we're being held like that. Yeah, I just. I totally understand what you're saying. Like, I'll seek God's heart and I'll pray and I'll be in scripture and I'll worship. But then there's times that I'm just like at my wits end. I'm like, God, I have nothing left to give right now. Like, I've been trying to hold on in faith. And the ways that he's consistently reached back to me in those moments, I was like, wow, like this is how you're always here. But right now I'm really seeing it. I'm really feeling it and it's just beautiful.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Have you considered that the possibility is that we are living in heaven and living a life in heaven, yet maybe don't completely see it until we are in accord with God's wishes?
[00:20:21] Speaker A: So you're saying that's what some people believe?
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Well, I believe that. I fully believe that this is heaven. But you know, you can actually make your own healthy self if you want.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: We're very good at it too.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you live in accord with God's wishes, then, you know, and your life path, then everything seems to flow just nicely.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: Yeah. It's amazing how we can have peace in the middle of a storm and joy in the middle of, you know, the world falling apart. His. His promises are real. His promises are.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. This is experience. We're here for it. Yeah. And what do you think the purpose of our lives are, considering your experience and connection with.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: I think our purpose in life is to become more like Christ and to show the world who Jesus is. Some of my favorite books of the Bible are the Gospels because the life of Jesus is the most beautiful depiction of who God is. And so to be able to live a life that honors him and for my life to show the world the love of God as Jesus did is like my.
My biggest prayer. Right. That every day I would look more and more excellent.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: So how can people find you, Debbie, and find your books and maybe join in your ministry if they can?
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Well, I have a website. It's debilutherhowell.com and on there you can find my social media pages to follow me. My books are on there. My first one is available now. My second one will be on there and available in May. Still writing the third one. And now I've got my BL blog on there. You can book me as a speaker. Like, I like to speak for events. I do creative Bible journaling classes that I love to teach. Yeah. Reach out. I'd love to get to know you and hear your stories.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: And how could somebody who's just willing, willing to start that has found themselves maybe troubled by, you know, Christianity in the past. Is there any prayer that you would recommend to them just to help them get themselves in alignment with just being in tune with God?
[00:22:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, I know two of my favorite prayers of Paul are found. One is in Ephesians chapter two, and the other one is Ephesians chapter three. So I think that's a really good place to start. It just, it's Paul's prayer that the light of God would flood our hearts, that we would experience for ourselves the love of Christ. I mean, it's just this gorgeous, rich prayer. And the other place I would recommend is John chapter 17. This is Jesus prayer for his disciples and for us before he went to the cross. And it's just this beautiful prayer asking God to bring us into the love of God, that we would have the same oneness with God that Jesus did. And just find scriptures like that and pray them. And like you mentioned earlier, you could put your name in there, you know, thank you, God, that you're flooding my heart with your love. Thank you for bringing light into my darkness. Just get to know God in the scriptures and see how he will respond.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I appreciate your personal understanding of God and how you've shared it. I'm Debbie and we've come to the end of the podcast and I was going to ask you, is there any other questions do you think I should have asked that I didn't ask?
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Well, maybe just a little bit about how to use scripture to pray for other people.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: Okay. How would we go through that?
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Well, you know, I've done this a lot. I'm a mother, so especially over my daughters, but also over friends to find. One thing I love to do is to go to BibleGateway.com because then you can put in just a word to look up something in scripture topically. Like, let's say what, what my child is doing in life right now is just. I'm afraid they're self destructing. Right. I'm just afraid for them. So I would go to Bible Gateway.com, put in the Word seer and it will literally bring up every scripture in the Bible that has the word fear in it. And then you can even look up the scriptures in different versions on that website. And then I would just grab a notebook. I love to journal and put stickers and things to make it fun and creative. And I would just start writing out the scriptures where God says, don't be afraid or trust me. And then I would write those scriptures out and put my daughter's name in it. And it's. I mean, obviously these are God's words. So I'm literally praying his will because I'm speaking His words back to him. So I know I'm praying on what's on his heart. And then it's a reminder to me every time I do it that God is who he says he is and he does what he says he's going to do. And that's just a beautiful way to grow my faith as I pray for those that I love.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Do you see that sort of prayer, like, as being, like a form of deliverance from works that may be affecting people?
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, obviously God gives everybody free choice. So let's say my daughter wants to go one direction, and I'm praying that she'll go a different one. It's not about me trying to force my daughter to live for God or to surrender to him, but what's incredible is the ways that I see him showing up in their journeys to say, hey, I'm here and I love you, to try to draw them back. I've seen that happen again and again. And it just. Just helps me to really remember how much God loves them and how much he is here to fight for them.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: So, yeah. Message.
Thanks again, Debbie, for coming on to Super Normalizer. I appreciate all that you've shared and yeah, and your ministering is. Is going to help so many people. I see it for sure.
You're welcome. All right, I'll just say goodbye to listeners.
I enjoyed Debbie's rich understanding of her faith and her ministering and how she helps to Dr. Draw people to a greater connection with God, which can actually help a lot during troubled times. If you've enjoyed today's show, remember to like and subscribe. It's free. And also give me five stars if you're on a podcast app or share it to a friend who might enjoy this episode as well. I appreciate you listening, and until next episode, it's bye for now.
