Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Super Normalized. I'm your host, CJ Barnaby and I like to challenge what's considered normal and invite people just like you to share your story, wisdom and truth. Each week I explore deep healing modalities, supernatural abilities, spiritual contact and the often unexplained, whilst leaning into acceptance, personal growth and real healing. If you're ready to step into a world where your story matters, you're in the right place. Enjoy finally being supernormalized.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Today on Super Normalized we're doing something a little different. I've invited my friend Nathan over for a conversation about astrology, shadow work and the things that are happening in the world right now and how you can work with them in more conscious, co creative ways. The conversation delves deep into on how astrology can affect somebody, how you can actually work with those effects and then how you can remediate them to help yourself through life.
Nathan's also going to be doing a course soon with Gordon White of Rune Soup which is called the Shaman's Devil. It's a deep dive on shadow work and in our recent conversations that we have almost weekly, Nathan and I hatched this idea for this conversation. So if you're interested in shadow work, personal change and how that can roll out for you in different ways according to your own astrology, this episode will be very interesting for you. So please enjoy this show.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: So welcome to Super Normalized. Today we have Nathan, my good magical friend here and we're going to be discussing a series of understandings that we've both been talking about. But this time we're going to catch it on camera and and explore conversations around shadow work, astrology, what's going on in the world and more. So welcome to the show, Nathan.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Thank you very much.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: So Nathan is my second person, a third person in in person interview and I'm sure you'll enjoy because we always have these great conversations. We actually meet for lunch nearly every week, or we aim to every week.
And when we do, we often sit there and go, oh God, we've recorded that.
So now we're recording that and hopefully we sound. We've decided we would like to sound intelligent and interesting because our conversations do sound intelligent and interesting to us. So we're hoping you will enjoy. Yeah, yeah.
So where did I have my questions here?
Did I put them in here?
You got them.
Here we go.
So desire in the age of disruption, Astrology, shadow devotion and becoming a conduit.
Where do we start with that?
[00:03:21] Speaker C: I think the other day we started with Uranus's ingress into Gemini and the disruptive nature of that by design.
So for me it's conjoining my ic, which is not fun.
That's very foundational. It's about home and family. And of course I'm moving house now.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And you mentioned earlier today, for me that's moving into my perception of money and finances and shaking it all up.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Yeah. So your area, your house of resources and.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: All that sort of fun stuff.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Well that's, that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out for me. I mean I've been in. In concern mode for a little while because of the way the world is going anyway. But it'll be interesting to see how much more concern I can get.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: It's Uranus. So a lot.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah, probably shocking concerns. Right.
[00:04:18] Speaker C: I mean, Natalie, I've got Uranus conjoined my mc. So it's a very significant factor for me in my natal chart just naturally. And it comes with a sense of doom.
That seems to be one of the things that manifests from significant Uranus transits is that fear of the chaos and uncertainty that it brings, even though that's not necessarily foundational. Yeah.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Right. So Uranus for itself really does bring sort of uncertainty and I shake up for anyone.
How would someone look that up in their own chart?
[00:04:52] Speaker C: Do you think you'd need to go into one of the programs that have chart and then find the glyph and see where it is. It'll be entering Gemini at this point. So that's fairly obvious. Should be fairly obvious in most people's charts. And then find out which house that you're looking at and the topic area of that house will be where probably you're feeling the most uncertain about things.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Right.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean it doesn't always have that feeling. It doesn't always bear out that feeling of doom and concern that comes with it.
The surprises can be good with Uranus. Not always. But I think it's important. Something that I'm trying to work on is not letting that run away with me because it has shaped a lot of my career where I've looked specifically for jobs that are incredibly stable and secure and long lasting. Because I've always been afraid of not having a job and losing that job and not having the means to support myself.
And that's baked into my natal chart with the Uranus placement there. And I've noticed as it transits through the houses, you get that progression of fear and uncertainty. But it can also be accurate like the house that I'm living in, the ceiling is literally falling in on me.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Like, danger from the sky is a very literal Uranian sort of manifestation.
But also, like, I possibly could have worked through that and stayed there and repaired the roof and managed it that way and then come out ahead still.
But I'm choosing instead to go with that change, the change that Uranus is bringing, and just drop everything and move, Make a complete change as part of the manifestation of that transit.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: For me, it's almost like life is bringing your shadow into reality.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: Yes.
I've got heavy 12th house stuff in my chart. So it's all shadow for me.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
But it is going on for everyone.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it's the time for it. We're entering the shadow phase of Western civilization, where people realize what the shadow is, why it doesn't work, where we're going with it. And if people don't start to work on that, then the shadow rules. And we all can guess where that's going based on current events.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
So our next topic, I think that is we're rolling into. There is fear, desire, and decision in making.
Fear, desire, and decision making in unstable times.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's like what I'm saying with the Uranus transit is it can be good, it can be bad, but the default setting for human beings is to look for the bad.
And we're entering really uncertain times. And it's a survival mechanism. Like, that's how it's supposed to work. But you have to be aware of that.
And you have to.
Yeah, you have to consciously make the choice rather than letting your fear decide for you. Because I realized as part of this time in my life that all of my major life decisions have been made based on moving away from discomfort rather than towards something enjoyable or something that I really wanted.
So, like, the job that I first chose was because I didn't want to do the other things that were available to me. The job that I have now is because there wasn't anything else available and I needed a job and I stuck with it probably longer than I should have. But that was the thing. The place where I'm living, it was easier for me to buy the place that I was renting and living in than it was to look for another place, even though it wasn't perfect and the ceiling is now falling down. So.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: But there was. There was a good outcome.
[00:08:34] Speaker C: But that's. Yeah, that's. That's the thing is, like, none of them have been bad outcomes. I don't Regret any of those decisions.
They were good for me, perfect for me at that time in my life. Everything has worked out so far, but they've never been a conscious choice to go, this is what I want. And I'm moving towards that. I'm choosing what I want. I was always choosing away from what I didn't want.
And it's. I think that's a very significant thing that a lot of people miss in life, is that if you let. If you don't understand what you want, if you don't understand your true desires, if you're operating out of fear and scarcity mode, then you tend to move away from discomfort more than towards your joy.
And that, I think, is a really important distinction to make.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think the key thing is there is to recognize those internal parts and acknowledge them.
[00:09:25] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: Appropriately.
And in doing so, then they don't have power over you unconsciously.
[00:09:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, those. Those internal parts that come from that, those traumatic experiences that were foundational to your psyche, those things that rule you in fear, they have a role to play. Like, they will always be part of you. You can't get rid of them. You can't. Like, suppressing them literally makes them worse.
But they can function in a much more healthy way than they usually currently are for most people.
And instead of taking you over and forcing you to operate out of their fears, the fears that were established when they were created from the initial trauma event, probably when you're a small child, they then become. In your adult self, they can become advisors, and they go, hey, I've spotted this thing that you might not have thought of. This is panicking me as a. As a part of you.
Think about that. Rather than them taking over and trying to operate as if you were 2 years old and, you know, your parent just yelled at you or something like that.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're talking. So people understand it around a book where both. Well, Nathan's read it. I'm reading it. It's called no Bad Parts.
And the understanding in that is that there we're built up of multitudes of characters and personality, and within that, those unrecognized parts of self can control you and cause issues in your life if they're not resolved accurately.
And. But they all can be approached and consciously. Yeah, approach consciously. And in doing so, it not only empowers them to help guide you, as Nathan was just discussing then, that it makes life flow better and makes for more authentic inner connection for the self, but then outer connection, because you aren't basically projecting all your garbage into the world.
Yeah, right. So, okay, so you've talked here and we got notes that we're going off because Nathan is amazing at writing notes.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: If I don't have notes, I get lost.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: And maybe I'm like, did you chatgpt any of this? I don't know, because it's so well written and. Yeah, but going back into it here you've got parts about here, the 8th and 12th House heavy charts, especially for those people with torn of scarcity conditioning. Yeah.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: I mean, everyone's got an 8th and 12th house. So you'll have parts of your chart that activate those things. So the eighth is the house of death and debt and all those terrible things that just sort of stick with you through life. And the 12th house is the house of your undoing and your mental illness, the seclusion from society, whether that's in a mental institution or prison or a spiritual retreat.
And so they're the.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Are they related?
[00:12:43] Speaker C: Well, they're all isolating places where you just have to deal with yourself, like your internal self.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: I'm just thinking of all the spiritual retreats out there going. Going what?
[00:12:51] Speaker C: That's obviously the best manifestation, one of the best manifestations you can get. So we're aiming for that and trying to avoid present when it comes to 12th house stuff. But yeah, so those. They're operating for everyone. And I think that goes into the no bad parts theory where as you grow up, those houses activate and you get traumas that create these parts of your psyche that are conditioned to respond in really specific ways to perceive threats that they felt at a time when your psyche was not able to deal with them. It was not mature enough or strong enough to be able to deal with them itself.
So it sort of carved off a piece of itself and locked it away and said, I'll deal with that when I'm able. Most people don't get to that point where they go, I'm able to deal with that now.
So they're stuck with those parts that are operating through as if they were two years old again.
And when you actually go and talk to them, as the book sort of gives examples of, most of them don't realize that you're actually an adult now. And they're kind of surprised to know that, to realize that, oh, it's actually been 40 years since this thing happened. And this true self, like the inner self that is the core you is now fully capable of dealing with this stuff.
And it's. It's generally a bit of a stretch for them to get to the point where they can trust you to actually allow you to deal with the things that they've been desperately controlling for so long. Because that's been their sole focus and sole function and like, it was necessary at the time. Like, they're beautiful things because they did something to keep you alive.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: But they're also traumatized and they have other. Other functions that they might want to do. Other things that they want to do that they enjoy more than, you know, keeping part of you suppressed that might be traumatic to deal with.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: So we've highlighted here desire for money as a prime example. Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: So, I mean, a lot of people, and I know we've discussed this as well, is like.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: Yeah, what do you really want?
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah. When you get into that scarcity mindset, when you get into that what do I want sort of thing, the first thing everyone thinks of is money. You're like, I need more money. And so I'm going to aim for more money. I'm going to do magic and manifestation and then prayer and whatever to try and get more and more money. Private islands. Yeah, money is what I need.
But that's not actually true because you forget the next part of the sentence, which is, I need more money to do something, get something, be something, feel this way, do that thing, be in that place. And that's the actual goal. Like, the money is the process. It's the. It's the token that allows you to do the thing. It's the energy that enables the things that you really want to come into being. And it shouldn't be the target of any goal.
That's not a goal, it's a process.
And as soon as you start to realize that it will help focus your desire, you really start to understand what you actually want.
And then that gives you a whole lot of different tools to get the thing that you actually want. Because if you're just going, I need more money, that means, I don't know, you could work 50 hours a week at a job you hate and get lots of money for it, but that's.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Where's your joy?
[00:16:17] Speaker C: Yeah, that's not the thing that you actually want. Behind that, you know, you're too exhausted.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: To enjoy what you want anyway.
[00:16:24] Speaker C: So, yeah, like, you lose sight of what that actually. What that actually is. Whereas if you're aiming for the thing, and it might come to you through working 50 hours a week in the horrible job, but it might come to you through a whole bunch of different random ways that the universe thought of that you could never think of yourself.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I like that you've highlighted there that what people really, truly want is often safety, freedom, recognition, beauty, time nourishment, and creative autonomy.
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Those are foundational things that people want, and they're kind of like the opposite of the fears.
And the 12th house stuff, it's like, that's the IC where Uranus is now the fourth house, the place where you're most safe and secure and comfortable and you have everything that you need.
And for me, Uranus is shaking that up right now, and it's going, hey, you don't have a home anymore because that one's falling apart. What are you going to do? And now I have a chance to go.
I'm very lucky because I've got a place to move to, and I can sit there and go, what do I actually want?
Like, the instinct is to go, oh, I need a house. I need to spend however much money it costs to get a house in the city, near my job, near all the shops, near all the family, near all my friends, so I can go to the cinema, so I can walk to Kohl's and all that sort of stuff. But I don't actually know if that's what I really, truly want.
But then I also don't know if I want a shack in the woods, somewhere that's isolated from everywhere and beautiful surrounds and quiet and silence where I can meditate forever.
Because I kind of like, you know, electricity and air conditioning and stuff like that.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: So I had that with electricity. Yeah.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: But it's one of those things where I have to actually sit down and, like, is that really what I want? Like, that is. That is a fantasy that. That part of me wants. Part of me wants to run away from all the scary things in the world and find a little safe place to just away from everything where I can write out whatever chaos is happening over the next few years and then just emerge at the end and be like, okay, that's all done. I avoided it completely. I'm safe now. I can do my life, like, do the things that I actually want. And then that's the key. That's not what I want.
Like, that is operating from fear. That's me running away from something that's uncomfortable, not towards something that I actually want.
And it's a really fine distinction because maybe I actually do want an isolated house that's really beautiful and peaceful.
Pretty sure there's something in there for me, but I want to be able to choose that consciously. And I don't want it to come out of the fear of what's going on in the world right now, because then I'm locked into that fear of what's happening in the world right now. I'm manifesting that fear, and it becomes the ruling force of my life, rather than joy. And.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I totally, totally get that. And that's part of the driver of some. My planning now with my wife to move to Nicaragua, you know, and we talked about this the other day. You were like, but what do you really want when you get there?
[00:19:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I was like, we're in a really similar situation with, like, we've got these major life changes that involve where we live.
Yours is based on the resources, and mine is based on the literal physical home. But we end up in the same sort of place where we have to think about what do we actually want from our lives. Like, this is a major transition for us, and it opens up the possibilities to go.
To reevaluate all that stuff. Mercury retrograde while we're recording this. So you think about all these things.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:54] Speaker C: This is the time to reevaluate all that stuff and really work it out and decide whether you actually want the thing that you are aiming for or if it's triggered by some part of you that is terrified of losing stuff.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, as we've discussed many times, a part of the. The change is letting go.
[00:20:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: And it's actually felt really good to go through my covers and find things that I've held on for a long time and say, don't really actually need this.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: You know, it's almost traumatizing in itself, the amount of crap that I've got.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: I know, it's weird.
[00:20:30] Speaker C: Like, you're like, why did I keep that Again? That's a. That's a scarcity mindset. Thing is, like, I might need that. I might not have that resource in the future, and I might desperately need it. What if I don't have it? Will the world end? Because I don't have that thing? And that's not like a mature, sensible part of your psyche that's responding to that. That's the child that had their toy taken away.
And, like, that was really traumatic for a child because at that point, the toy is all you have. It's part of you. And if it's taken away, that creates a traumatic event. That creates a part that needs to be suppressed because your psyche is not developed enough to be able to deal with it. And then that carries through your entire life.
This One event that most people wouldn't even notice now as an adult, but for their child at that time, it was really terrible. Yeah. It was everything.
And then that part of you then controls because it's so rooted in fear and survival. Because at that point, that was a survival issue for the child.
It affect us into everything. Like how you operate now. Like, I'm losing a resource that means my toy's been taken away. That's triggering that same trauma. That survival is trauma.
And you're still operating at that. Instinctive, I need to stay alive. I need to keep this thing because otherwise I might die.
But you can go and then talk to that part and go, hey, I'm in my 40s now. I've got this.
There are more toys. I can get more toys. It'll be fine.
What do you actually want?
[00:22:00] Speaker A: True, exactly. What do you actually want and what do you actually need?
[00:22:04] Speaker C: And it takes a while to build up the trust, but you can ask them to step back and say, like, I know, I recognize that you're feeling this. Like, I absolutely understand where you're coming from. Like, that makes perfect sense. And you're an amazing being for having done that. Like, you kept us alive, you helped us survive that trauma.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:23] Speaker C: But now do you want to just step back for a bit and see what it feels like?
If you just let me have a go at handling it. Is there something else that you want to have a go at? Like, is there something you'd rather do? Do you want to play with the toy?
Do you want to go and have a nap?
You can do that now. Rather than being so controlled and so afraid and so intent on controlling everything so that that trauma doesn't happen again.
And then that gives you the mental space to go, okay, what are my real options in this point? Like, do I need to keep that thing? Is it life threatening that I hold onto it? Or can I just go? This was useful at the time. Now it's time to let it go.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
So that plays out into the next heading, which would be the scarcity spell. Trauma, capitalism and the warping of desire.
Yeah, we're trying to equate safety with money, but this is an illusion that often diverts us from recognizing and honoring our true desires. We sort of like went over that then, really.
[00:23:25] Speaker C: I think it's baked into society, though. Like, the capitalist marketing thing is you need money, like, all the time. Everything is money. Everything.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: You turn on any social media and you give it a flick and there's some prick saying you can make this much money in the next 20 seconds. As long as you buy that.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's always buy this thing that you need money for, but it's not, I want to go and sit in the park and watch the birds.
Because that's free. Like, it might be the thing that you really, really want to do or.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: The thing that you actually really, really need to do.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: Exactly.
But we're trained from like our earliest point in childhood to go, I don't have enough money. I need to take money off other people. Because it's the scarcity thing. Like, it will. Products will run out if I don't buy them immediately. There's not enough for everyone.
So I have to do the best I can. I have to get the most that I can. And that feeds into this scarcity mindset of there's not enough for everyone.
When, I mean, the world is designed to support life. That's what it's all about.
But you need to reevaluate what your desires are, what your needs actually are, and, like, see if it is actually money. Like, money is not bad.
We love money. Money is useful.
Yeah. It's a necessary and really useful energy to get what you want. And so you shouldn't be like just abandoning it unless that's your desire. But you need to recognize it for what it is.
A useful tool, not a goal.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Have we been trooped?
Yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: I mean, money is ruled by the trickster spirits.
It's baked into the design.
It's a test to see if you can do it. And if you win, you get more money.
Mercury retrograde again. This is Mercury's domain, Gemini as well, where Uranus is shaking things up. This is why Uranus going to Gemini is going to signal changes with Bitcoin and Stablecoin and silver CBDCs and stuff. It's about the new way of measuring wealth and manifesting wealth and shaking it up and doing it in a strange new way.
That might also be really scary because Uranus, chaos. Humans are designed to avoid chaos because chaos is dangerous.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: Think about selling things.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: But do you want to? That's the thing.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Maybe I'm just doing it out of fear. I don't know.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: Exactly.
You have to recognize that these things are happening. They're operating in you. And part of the desire of Uranus is to shake things up, make people scared and force them out of their comfort zones.
That's its literal job in the universe, is to force people out of the stable, secure thing. Because something might be better.
Because if you stagnate that's the end. You die. Stagnation is death.
And Uranus job is to come around and shake that up with lightning strikes and chaos. Um, I forgot where I was going with this.
But you have to lean into that. You have to find a way to connect what you want with that planet's desire. And it happens with any sort of transit at all.
You need to find that point where the connection is where you can channel that energy from Uranus that wants to shake things up and change things into a way that you also desire it. So for me, it's moving house rather than waiting for the roof to fall in on me, which could be a literal manifestation of the Uranian energy.
It's like I'm completely upending my entire living situation, my entire fourth house, throwing it up in the air and doing something crazy that I've never done before.
And that's my channeling of the Uranus transit through Gemini, especially when it crosses my ic, which is right at the start of the sign.
But I could have just sat there and waited and then let Uranus manifest something that it wants that doesn't work for me.
And that would probably be even. That would definitely be worse. I think could be better. It's Uranus. Who knows?
Yeah. But this way the move so far has gone incredibly smoothly. Like bizarrely smoothly and easily. Yeah. It's been excellent. Despite a lot of other bad astro weather. Depending on how you view astro weather.
So you can also find that in your second house transit is like find a way of thinking about resources that works with the shakeup that Uranus is bringing to that area.
So it might be sell everything and live like a bird.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: I like that.
Yeah, I lived that before. I used to live out just out of a case. Just one case.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Maybe that's something you can do again. Or maybe it's invest in something really strange like moving to another country and buying property there.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: That seems like it's on the cards.
Can you dream too big?
[00:28:19] Speaker C: I. Part of me always says yes, but I'm sure that's a part.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: I actually don't think there's any harm in dreaming too big. No, I think it's necessary. Otherwise you limit yourself the potential that the magic that you're going to bring into your own life can do.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: I think that the idea of dreaming too big is part of the scarcity mindset thing. Like there's not enough for everyone. You don't get to have all the things that you want. Yeah, that's not allowed.
And I don't think that's real. But so it limits, like, as you said, it limits you. But I also, there's a. There's a different part of me that is going, well, you have to be realistic or within that.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I totally agree. I get that as well.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: But then where do you draw the line?
Because we're in this moment of wild uncertainty globally.
But it's like. And I could be like, I want my own private island and a super yacht. Is that too big?
If the economy collapses and whatnot, is that going to be possible? Is it going to be desirable?
But does that mean I shouldn't go for it?
If it's what I really want, if it's what I'm put on this earth to desire and manifest, then why not go for it?
But also there's a limited number of islands out there and they're very expensive.
But yeah, it's that tension between operating in the context that you're in right now, but also letting magic do its thing.
Like, because magic, the universe manifestation energy, however you want to think about it, is not limited by the constraints of our society.
Like it doesn't have the rules and regulations that we have that we have to operate in most of the time.
And then we're also trained to think in specific ways and be controlled.
Sometimes they serve us. Like it serves us to fit in with society. Because humans are collective beings that need other humans around in order to survive.
And to do that, we have to operate in a cooperative society sort of context. But is that a limit that's real?
Yeah.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: And then also circles back to that idea. Your desires just extensions of the capitalism octopus that's been plugged into our heads. Yeah.
So maybe that product is just them making you run on the treadmill continuously.
[00:30:53] Speaker C: But then also if I do some magic to manifest that, and I don't know, save a billionaire's cat from getting run over by a car tomorrow and then they gift me with an island.
That's not a capitalist thing. But I got what I wanted.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay, there's no harm in dreaming big then.
[00:31:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's a really difficult thing, especially now where things are so uncertain. Like the uncertainty opens out so many more possibilities.
Like it blows things wide open. If things were really stable and set, you would have much more limited scope for changing your situation.
But because society is sort of exploding apart and going in really mad directions right now, there's potential for people to just go wild and go, I'm going to go for this amazing Ridiculous big dream that I've had. And maybe it will happen because there's so many more possibilities right now.
But then also, you're operating in this place of scarcity and craziness, where the societal controls are breaking down and clamping down and creating scarcity. So you have to be prepared to operate within that manufactured scarcity because it is something, a real thing, you're going to have to deal with.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: So there's this crazy tension there that you have to.
It's very twins in Gemini thing. It's like you've got both of them there. It's a dual sign.
Both of them can operate, and we need to work out how to operate in both sides at the same time in order to, A, survive and B, manifest all the beautiful world that we want.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Shadow healing in the clear channel. Part of your work that you're doing with yourself right now is shadow healing, and you're also looking at where you've signed up to a course with Gordon White from Rune Soup.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: To work on your shadow there. What's the name of that course?
[00:32:55] Speaker C: The Shaman's Devil.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: Shaman's Devil. Okay.
So as a part of the recording of this, too, I thought we'd have this discussion because a lot of this all touches on that, and then we may revisit after Nathan has done the work to have his experience.
[00:33:10] Speaker C: Hopefully it's good.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: You sure it will be. You know, Gordon's the super therapist, so I'm sure things will come out the other side.
[00:33:18] Speaker C: I mean, if anyone can make diving into your traumas enjoyable, it's probably him.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: It's probably.
He's already doing it on YouTube. I mean, my God. Oh, that. Yeah.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: That series of videos is insane. Oh, it's wildly.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: Seriously?
[00:33:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
So you have committed to shadow integration, and you've noticed that magic is becoming more. More precise and powerful. Why do you think that is?
[00:33:43] Speaker C: I think it's because you're operating from your true self. Like, you don't have all the random parts that are operating in a fear sort of space clamoring for attention. So when you say to the universe, I want this thing, it's a truth. It's all of you saying that it's not truth. Yeah, it's an. It's a very literal truth that you're speaking out there. It's not. And it's coming from the core of who you are, not the part of you that's. That's operating. Everything that stepped in to go. I'm panicking. I need to do this thing.
And because you're integrating all those parts, they're not conflicting against each other because they can fight. That's the thing. They all want different things because they're all trying to control you, control the world, because that's the way they feel safest. And one of them being in control means that the others are not.
So these different parts of your psyche are working against each other and against you.
And as you start to integrate them and get them to relax and step back and perform their role as advisors rather than the dominating force, everything starts to align and you sort of clear out that channel to divinity, the spirit world, the universe, and it becomes a lot clearer.
And I mean, part of that was an instruction for me to tell no more lies, like even the white lies or the slight exaggerations to make people feel better.
I need to be fully trustworthy in order to be worthy of my parts, trusting me to do what I say I will to them.
So essentially, with this shadow integration method, you're going back to parts of your psyche that are children, and you're saying to them, hi, I'm an adult. You can trust me now. And they're like, up till now you've completely ignored me and you've haven't done anything to help me. Why should I trust you?
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Why now?
[00:35:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
And you have to. It takes time to build up that trust. And part of that for me was like, one of my key part traumas, I guess, is making sure everyone around me is safe and comfortable. So you can't piss anyone off. You can't make people feel uncomfortable. And so part of that is like, I'll tell people what they want to hear, but that's not always true.
And so if I'm not telling the truth to people in the physical world, how do my parts know that I'm telling the truth to them?
So, yeah, it's going to be a.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Very interesting process for me.
[00:36:08] Speaker C: Because in doing that, I'm dealing with multiple traumas at once.
It's like they're all interrelated. It's this amazing connected web of things.
You approach them as if they're separate, but they're also all you, and you're all of them. And you're also operating in a spiritual, magical world where the planets and the stars are also affecting these things and feeding into them.
And it's all separate and all connected. And if you start changing one part, all the others start to change as well.
It's operating in the field, the level of the field.
So Small changes can have huge impacts.
And this idea for me is not telling lies, like only truth. 100% truth from now. Something I'm working on.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: Perfect.
[00:36:55] Speaker C: But having done that, I can already see amazing results.
I'm karma already about everything.
I'm moving house, I'm working a full time job. I had to go interstate and overseas for various things recently at the same time as all this stuff is happening and I'm managing it and it's relatively enjoyable as much as this can be.
I know when I'm being triggered by specific parts, specific traumas that would have just taken over me in the past and I would have lost my cool or flipped out or had a panic attack.
Now I still feel that it's still there, but I can go, I know what's happening right now. I might not be able to deal with it in that moment, but I can feel it and sort it out much quicker later.
And then when I start, I noticed it immediately was one of the things is when I started I do daily prayers to various, lots of different people, especially planets and whatnot. But I noticed that they felt different. They felt like stronger and truer. Yeah, yeah.
And it's that, that clear sort of centered self that is speaking truth to the universe through prayer, through conversation.
And it responds in its, in its true self as well. And so as you start to heal yourself, you're also healing the universe because it's all connected and so they respond in a better way. And then, I mean, even when you're talking with like normal real people and you started to heal these parts of yourself, if you're speaking authentically to them, their authentic person starts to come forward as well. Because you've made a safe space for that.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: And they don't even realize it.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: It may only be they fall into resonance. They can't help it.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. And they might not realize it ever. It might just be for that 30 second conversation that you had in the lift or something. But it worked. And it's amazing sort of beautiful thing.
Even though it's a small change for you.
Literally my change was, oh, I realized that I've got a part that does this. It responds.
It's a scarcity thing that all my stuff's going to be taken away as soon as I stop worrying about that.
I don't have to please everyone.
Like I'm safe with them. They feel safe with me because I'm trusting them. And yeah, it's wild.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I know, I get it. Because I'm starting to notice some of that happened to me too. Just. Just from reading that book and doing some of the processes, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe integrating your shadow. It's this. It's like, it's literally being more in accord with truth.
[00:39:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: And I think anyone could benefit from that. Oh, everyone, Everyone.
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Everyone should do it. Yeah. And, like, I don't know if it feels separate, but I'm sure it's connected. But part of what I've been doing with my daily astrological practice is I found ways to petition the planets very specifically to me. So as the planet transits a house, I'll change the prayer that I speak to them and say, bless me with this and that specific to that house. So I'm tracking through the areas of my life with the different planets and getting into resonance with them and showing them my desires and how they align with theirs, like, the way they operate.
Because I'm playing with the idea that the planets can be like, they're obviously their own beings, and there's lots of different ways to look at them, but one way of looking at them is that they are instances of divine attention that are brought into a specific part of your life.
So as Jupiter transits part of, like, one of your houses, it's going through my fifth house at the moment, and it's a big yes. So everything fifth house is a big yes for me. So all the creativity, all the pleasure, joy, fun, that is all a big yes at the moment. Saturn's going through Aries in my second house, and that's a big no. So finances and stuff. I had to be super careful. There's no overspending, there's no being extravagant. It's work out how to save stuff. Work out how to put restrictions on what you do.
And that's the way I'm playing with it. It's like Venus binds things together. It creates love, and Mars cuts things apart. So as they go through the different parts of your life, the different parts of your existence, you find resonances with them. And then that opens up so much more of a connection, like a very intimate and direct connection between you and that specific entity, and it's channeled through your desires.
And I had to, like, there's a caveat with this one because I screwed it up at the start with all my eighth house planets. I was like, okay, planets transiting through those houses, that house that will help me be good at helping people through transformations and grief and loss and, like, dealing with those. Those sorts of things and death and stuff. I'm like, yeah, that's a really good one. Like, that's really positive. I'm helping people do these things, like, deal with these things.
And then I got flooded with all these people who are going through crises. And I was like, oh, shit, I've done this.
I mean, it wasn't. Wasn't my fault. It wasn't something that I manifested, but it all happened at once. And I was like, actually, this is not what I want. I don't want to be constantly bombarded with people going through traumatic events. I need space. Like, I can't. I don't have the capacity to deal with that. I don't want that to be my entire life because I have those significant placements in my chart. So I had to change those prayers and I had to align my truer desire with the operation of those planets, the desire of those planets in those areas of my chart and find a better way that is more resonant for me as well as them, without upsetting anyone.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: Well, that speaks to the next heading we've got here, which is embodiment of the cosmos, Fractal magic and planetary prayer. I think we pretty much covered a lot of that in that response there.
[00:42:55] Speaker C: Well, I mean, the next thing there.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Is that, yeah, going into how the body is reflected in the astrology.
[00:43:01] Speaker C: Because once I started with the houses and this is my life, this is the context and environment that I operate, operate in. That's specific to me. I was then looking at the way that the human body is a microcosm of the macrocosm of the zodiac.
One of the traditional rulership divisions, I guess, of the zodiac is Aries is the head and Taurus is the neck and moving down through the body to Pisces at the feet.
So there's this human body depicted or ruled, created in the stars. And that's another even more intimate connection that you can forge with these greater intelligences, with these things that create the structures of life in the universe. They literally are the boundaries of our existence here. You can't see further than them.
And I'm pretty sure ancient civilizations had put primacy of the stars, like fixed stars and constellations, over the planets, whereas modern Western astrology tends to put the planets as the primary thing, which, I mean, it's fair. They're the most dramatic and interesting things that are constantly changing.
But now I'm wondering if what happens if you go back? What happens if you start treating the fixed stars, the constellations, as they interact with your body and create those energetic loops with Your body and the cosmos. Like the boundaries of the cosmos. And what happens then?
Because from a human perspective, like, the. The outside of your skin is technically the limit of your physical body.
Like, you have an energetic body that extends further out. But from our senses, we're inside this. This thing. And if you look out with your senses, we're inside this globe of stars, and you can't see outside of them. So it's the fractal experience of inner and outer and outer and inner and outer.
Like, what happens if you get into that resonance and you align your desires with the desires, the energies of those beings, those constellations, those entities that are out there that are forming the structure of the universe, the structure of your.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: Experience, what could happen?
[00:45:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of really exciting stuff with medical astrology. And if you resonate your body parts with those primal. I'm trying to think of the word soft, Ed.
Oh, yeah. I want to get into that, all that sort of resonance and stuff at some point, but haven't thought about that yet.
The archetypal forces of the universe that construct your body.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:37] Speaker C: Like you're tapping into the. The primal, untainted sort of version of that. And that's got to have positive effects on your body.
[00:45:47] Speaker A: It comes in. It makes you come into resonance, right?
[00:45:49] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: And then if it's for healing, then obviously it's going to heal it.
[00:45:53] Speaker C: And then, like, if your body is healed, then your shadow is healing as well, because there's no real difference between them, because the shadow manifests in the body like the traumas you possess manifest in your physical body.
And if you start healing one, you're healing the other. Which is why I think I've gotten to this point so quickly. It's just all sort of falling into place as one of the. As each thing starts and then what happens then after you have that resonance built up and this is so amazing.
Probably going to go into the next one with the gratitude.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you should. That makes sense, though, because one of.
[00:46:29] Speaker C: The things is just this. When you start healing these things and realizing that actually I don't have to operate from this place of pain and trauma and scariness all the time, the world is actually kind of nice.
It's really enjoyable to be alive. Even bad things are happening. I'm dealing with terrible things all the time. I've been sick for a while, but I'm still like, this is kind of awesome.
And then, because it's coming from outside, because it's coming from your resonance with those beings because it's coming from the way that I'm sort of trying to integrate all of these different things. It's like you're offering gratitude back to them.
So for my daily prayers, as part of that is, I've integrated this sort of gratitude practice of just saying thanks. Like you have praise and gratitude from me for just being.
Because you do this thing, because you embody this desire, this energy that I really love.
And that means you're giving back to that realm, that sort of spiritual side of the universe, rather than just going, I need, I need, I need, I need. I'm praying for this, I'm manifesting that. Give it to me, give it to me. You're also sending the energy back and going, this is my gratitude for everything that I've already got. Everything that you've already given me.
Everything that's beautiful in the world goes back to you as well. And so you're creating this energetic loop because everything is in everything's loops. It's all cycles and spirals. And I feel like if you're just doing one or if you're ignoring it, or if you're just going, I need, I need, I need, you're slowing down that energy flow.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:48:02] Speaker C: Whereas if you start pushing gratitude backwards back to it, you're turning into a force multiplier and you're increasing the flow and allowing it to become smoother and easier and widening the channel. And so there's, that's, it's sort of, it's bringing their attention to you as well. And I think because I've been doing this daily, sort of this daily planetary prayer practice for so long, they've started to recognize that I'm consistent, that I'm doing this.
And then because I've added this gratitude in, they're like they're getting more out of it. And, and it's not a, it's not a case of, it's not a transaction, it's just a function. It's like it's something that I'm supposed to do, that humans are supposed to do.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: It's Right relation.
[00:48:45] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. That's the perfect description of it.
And it's.
And once you do that, you get into that flow state where you can find ways of manifesting the planetary energies in ways that work with your desires much more easily. And it just flows beautifully.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: Oh, look, I, I know that connection that you're feeling because I started doing that only yesterday with Saturn. And, and of course, we're recording this on a Sunday, so on Saturday I would normally do my usually devotional prayers, but I did it differently this time.
And instead of just doing my prayers, lighting my candle, putting my incense on this time, I knelt down with Saturn.
And instead of just doing that, I just connected and gave gratitude lifts, actually bringing me emotions because I started crying when I was feeling it. And everything is so powerful.
[00:49:39] Speaker C: I mean, you started with the hardest.
[00:49:40] Speaker A: One out of the lot.
[00:49:41] Speaker C: I mean, that's props to you for doing that.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: My God. But I think for me, the point is with Saturn, though, Saturn's one I often overlook because I just don't want to wake him up too much.
[00:49:54] Speaker C: That's the thing, and that's one of the difficult things to get your head around at the start is you have to be grateful for the limits that sat on you.
[00:50:02] Speaker A: Well, that's what I did. The hard thing, exactly what I was talking about.
[00:50:04] Speaker C: Like, you're getting lessons from them and they're not pleasant, but you're a better person at the end of them. And that's something to be grateful for as you. You're grateful for the scarcity that Saturn brings. Like, I'm trying.
[00:50:14] Speaker A: I'm grateful for the innings that you're bringing.
[00:50:16] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm trying to be grateful for the fact that, yeah, my income is going to change. Like, I'm losing resources because Saturn is restricting my second house, but I'm also using that to build the structures that I actually want, which is something Saturn's also good at, kind of.
But, yeah, it's a strange sort of feeling to be grateful for things that you're told you're not supposed to be grateful for.
[00:50:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:50:40] Speaker C: But it works. And it's a really beautiful, beautiful thing to do that.
And then you can build in the sort of beauty to it as well. It's like human beings, I feel like human beings are here to rearrange the physical world.
Everything's already here. We can't really create anything new.
That's not our job.
We are here to rearrange things, to make things more beautiful and to increase that flow between our physical world and the spiritual world and the archetypal realm and all that sort of thing.
And I feel like in doing these practices, in using the incense and moving your body in certain ways, kneeling down or dancing or singing, it creates something that resonates with the planets, with the other spiritual entities in a really beautiful way that humans are supposed to do. Like, that's our job as incarnated beings on this plane.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: Or we give them a voice.
[00:51:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of the opposite of what we're doing with magic. When we're trying to manifest things, we're like, give me this, give me this, give me this. And the plants are going back, going, I want incense, I want a beautiful dance. I want a song. Give me some food. Because food is cool. You're moving all these weird physical things around that I can't do, but you do so easily. And we're like, yeah, but you're giving us money like out of nowhere. And that's how it works.
We each have something to bring.
It's not. Humans are powerless things. It's not that we're all powerful wizards who can shape reality, the whim of our consciousness. It's that we're in a relationship where this is what we do, this is what they do. And it works together.
[00:52:19] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. That circles into the next question, which is devotional magic, finding a truth method.
[00:52:25] Speaker C: This one, this one is interesting because I think it's. It's gradually developed for me over many years. Like, I started out with the. I want to be the powerful wizard. I want to do these sigils and cast these spells and I want to.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: Make those people like me.
[00:52:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I want to summon. I want to summon things and have crazy physical effects.
That's valid.
[00:52:47] Speaker A: Don'T you worry.
[00:52:50] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's what I wanted to do. And I was all like, it's not really working. I'm not getting it. Like, it doesn't feel like how I wanted it to. And so I just started this. Like, I don't even know how. I just very gradually started this daily thing and it started small and I've gradually built it up and it's become this daily sort of devotional practice. And it's very sort of prayer focused and very sort of all my 12th house stuff. It's very inward, meditative, solo sort of things.
But it works incredibly well for me.
And I think it's part of the embodiment of your natal chart, the promise of your natal chart, your specific circumstances.
That's not going to work for everyone. Some people are out there who are supposed to be the fireball wielding wizards who ride around the landscape and warp reality to their whims.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: What do you mean politicians.
[00:53:43] Speaker C: Anyway?
Or, you know, Gordon. I mean, he's another option.
Like that's, oh, it's going to be different for everyone. But because this. I found the way that works for me and I'm. I'm pushing that and trying to push that to the ultimate limit and see how far I can go with it and see what happens.
And that's that alignment of the astrological sort of elements of my being with what they can embody. That works for me. So Pisces Rising. There's a lot of the solo mystic sort of thing there in who I am.
And it's taken me a really long time to realize this, but I think other people.
There's some things for people to explore there. It's like, what does my chart say that would help me to become better at manifesting or magic or increasing the beauty or ease of my life? Getting the things that I want with a daily devotional practice or with a random quest or something that you have to go on or, you know, practicing summoning demons or like, whatever works. Like, the thing will be different for everyone. But if you find out what it is, if you find what resonates for you, what you find beautiful, enjoyable, desirable, go hard with it and see what happens.
Because you're probably manifesting the thing that you were meant to. You're probably embodying the thing that you are meant to. And once you get into that resonant flow, you can build on it and just expand it out into all areas of your life.
[00:55:18] Speaker A: Well, that speaks to that idea that you've got here for becoming the bridge.
[00:55:24] Speaker C: That's. Yeah, I mean, that's essentially what we're trying to do is like Western society. We've sort of. We've definitely been forced to ignore all this stuff.
[00:55:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, pretty much everything in the media.
And still to this day, they. People call it woo.
[00:55:41] Speaker C: Yeah, that's.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: That's. That's derision.
[00:55:44] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:55:45] Speaker A: Right. Which is ridiculous. And before the last, what, 200 years or so, it was sort of normal.
[00:55:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: For everyone.
[00:55:56] Speaker C: And it's like. It's this thing, like I talk about it like this and I feel kind of like part of me feels a bit stupid. Like I'm saying crazy things because that's the part of me that's trained.
Yeah. It's the part of me that is going, if you step out of these lines, people will hate you and you are in danger of being outcast. Physical danger. But I can talk to that part and go, hey, maybe not.
Let's see what happens if it doesn't.
And that sort of works. But we've got this opportunity now because we don't have.
Part of me is sad that we're missing the lineages and traditions from intact societies that have kept these sort of magical traditions going for much longer periods than we have. Because there's a definite power and resonance and beauty in those.
But we've also got the other side now, where we can just make our own.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:56:47] Speaker C: This is our opportunity. In all this chaos, let's find out what happens if we try out things and really stick to them.
[00:56:56] Speaker A: Going into apocalypse for everyone, we all be pushed to our limits in certain different ways. And as a part of that, if a magical current that aligns us with and puts us in accord with the universe so that things float so we can bring more beauty to the world and each other, why would you do it?
Exactly.
Yeah.
[00:57:19] Speaker C: And it might not last. Like this thing that I'm doing might actually only work for the next few months because of whatever circumstances.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: What's your history with this?
[00:57:29] Speaker C: But it doesn't matter if it doesn't. It doesn't matter if it doesn't. Because at this moment right now, I've made the world, the universe, more beautiful. I've increased the flow. I've increased the amount of magic and resonance and connection with the universe for this moment with a few beings. And that. You can't take that away like that. That now always exists in history.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: I'm going to say that you're always going to build on it. That's just.
[00:57:54] Speaker C: I mean, likely. That's what I'm aiming for. But even if it doesn't, even if you try something and it doesn't work, or it only works for a little while, you've done something, like you've increased something, you've made something more beautiful, even for only a moment.
And the universe holds that forever.
And that's amazing.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point to end on, I think.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: Sounds good to me.
[00:58:17] Speaker A: Thank you very much, Nathan, for coming on to Super Normalized and discussing your understanding of shadow work and astrology and sharing that with all of our listeners and watchers and viewers and.
Yeah. I look forward to our next discussion when we get to it. In the future, after you've done Gordon's new Shaman's Devil course, to throw down.
[00:58:41] Speaker C: Everything I just said and replaced it with something completely new.
[00:58:44] Speaker A: Well, when we come that time, it should be just this glowing beam in alignment with everything we can hope.
[00:58:50] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the goal.
[00:58:53] Speaker A: Thank you very much.
[00:58:54] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:58:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Cool. All right.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Despite my first time having a sit down sort of studio situation, I don't think camp chairs work that well. They're not very flattering, to say the least.
But if you enjoyed today's show, please, like, and subscribe and if you've enjoyed listening to this show and you're in a podcatcher, please give me five stars.
Send it to a friend. Thank you so much for listening. Until next episode, it's bye for now.
[00:59:32] Speaker A: Sam Lambe.
